Paratrooping onto Ladder Rungs?

[happyjosiah]

Um... the title pretty much asks it. Thoughts?

[Malechi]

Don't see why not, at least off hand, the only limitations have been adjacency and overhangs. As long as it passes those, they should be able to grab on because they are, after all, the Elite!

[happyjosiah]

That's how we have been playing it, just wondered what anyone else thought.

[LilNewbie]

As long as they don't get stuck on the Bell Tower...poor Red Buttons. ;)

Hmmm...I need to watch that movie again....

*off to the DVD collection.

Newb.

[Rÿchean]

I agree ...if you can without engaging then by all means...

We had it come up in a game and allowed it as well....

...and we also said the same thing..."after all they are elite!"

[bunjee]

came up in our game tonight, we allowed it. Started a list of things to check around for now that I have a castle, this was one of them.

[Revdyer]

As long as they don't get stuck on the Bell Tower...poor Red Buttons. ;)

Hmmm...I need to watch that movie again....

*off to the DVD collection.

Newb.
This is exactly the image that came into my mind. So, the AE can land on ladders, but after that they can't hear so well anymore.

[InfinityMax]

As long as they don't get stuck on the Bell Tower...poor Red Buttons. ;)

Hmmm...I need to watch that movie again....

*off to the DVD collection.

Newb.

Brilliant reference. My old man loved that movie. I must have seen it six times.

[reapersaurus]

Um... the title pretty much asks it. Thoughts?Well, it's pretty simple:
is a rung considered a space?

"If you roll a 13 or higher you may place all 4 Airborne Elite figures on any empty spaces."

[ultradoug]

its a space.

[ASmiles]

The AE are not allowed to land under ledges or overhangs. So it would make sense that the AE would only be allowed to land on ladder rungs that had no units on higher rungs.

[Jormi_Boced]

after all they are elite!"

That made me giggle.

[Aranas]

The AE are not allowed to land under ledges or overhangs. So it would make sense that the AE would only be allowed to land on ladder rungs that had no units on higher rungs.
This is not really an issue here. They can't be adjacent to other figures (see below). Being on the same hex, altough at a different height, is enough adjacent for me!! :lol:

The Drop
Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of each round, before you place Order Markers, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher you may place all 4 Airborne Elite figures on any empty spaces. You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures, or on glyphs.

Aranas

Note: I haven't read the castle rule yet on rungs.

[bonafide]

The AE are not allowed to land under ledges or overhangs. So it would make sense that the AE would only be allowed to land on ladder rungs that had no units on higher rungs.

I agree. Wouldn't every rung EXCEPT for the top rung be considered "under"?

[cavie]

We played allowing them to land on the ladder (although if you think about it, that would be tough). AE are great castle stormers - my son made me give them up after 2 games of them taking control of the castle.

[LilNewbie]

Here are the rules for movement on ladders (Page 6, Fortress of the Archkyrie rulebook):

"Treat each figure on a rung as if it were on a hex-shaped tile space. All rules for normal movement on hex-spaced tile spaces apply to figures on Ladders except the following:

-When moving up or down, each rung counts as 1 space; do not count levels.
-Figures are not allowed to skip rungs unless they fall off a Ladder.
-Figures are not allowed to fall from any space onto a Ladder rung."

(emphasis mine)

I would interpret this as a restriction to allowing the AE to drop onto a ladder rung but the part that says "from any space" might be seen as restricting only figures already on the board and not the AE since they aren't moving from any space during the drop. During a friendly game, I don't see this as a problem and would allow them to drop onto a rung for just the coolness factor. What about during a tourney though? Comments?

Newb.

[Nooblar]

I agree: drop on to rungs, can't drop underneath other characters on ladders.

Then, theoretically, you could drop all the AE onto a single ladder :!:

[bunjee]

I agree: drop on to rungs, can't drop underneath other characters on ladders.

Then, theoretically, you could drop all the AE onto a single ladder :!:It would have to be a tall ladder, the ae can't drop adjacent to other units, and if your base is within a small distance of the head of a figure lower on the ladder, you are adjacent.

[netherspirit]

I say no dropping onto a ladder.

[Nooblar]

I agree: drop on to rungs, can't drop underneath other characters on ladders.

Then, theoretically, you could drop all the AE onto a single ladder :!:It would have to be a tall ladder, the ae can't drop adjacent to other units, and if your base is within a small distance of the head of a figure lower on the ladder, you are adjacent.

Yeah, it would have to be tall. That's why I specified *in theory* ;)

[Hahma]

I say no dropping onto a ladder.

I agree that I don't like it, but I also don't like attacking my own army to boost them, but that's just me.


I allowed the dropping on the ladder the lastnight during my first game with a castle, since I just got my first one on friday. Fortunately I won initiative and had my "I don't cost that much" Taelord/height-enhanced Aubriens rain death on the AE parade. My nephew was less than thrilled.

[Supergeek]

I was reading the yahoo heroscape forum and came across this.

The card states that you “may” place the airborne elite, not that you have to. So, you roll to see if they can drop, and if you are successful then you get to choose if you want them to drop that turn (the entire squad). Lob 12 would work against a castle wall with no battlements, given that the character is on the same terrain level as the castle wall base. I got a rule clarification from the makers about the Drop that you might find interesting:



Thank you for contacting Hasbro with your question on Heroscape! I apologize for the delay in my response, but I wanted to make sure my ladder ruling was correct!

1. The Airborne Elite cannot land beneath a ledge/overhang.

2. The Airborne Elite can land on a ladder rung when using The Drop . Remember however, that they cannot land under an overhang, so they would not be able to land on a ladder rung if there is a figure occupying a ladder rung space above where they would land (thus creating an overhang).

I hope that answers your question(s). If there is anything else I can help you with, please visit www.hasbro.com or respond to this e-mail.

[Josef]

Sweet, i'm curious about the may thing aswell, I have played with and without it.

[ASmiles]

I shouldn't be suprised, but I never realized that anyone had a question about the option to jump.

If the weather's crappy, you stay in the plane. If the coast is clear, you can jump or you can stay in the plane.

If the weather's clear and you choose to stay in the plane, you have to roll again next turn.

[Revdyer]

I would suppose that the only real use of the "may" for drop would be if you did not want to drop on that turn, but rolled for drop out of habit or by accident. You say, "Oops, I didn't mean to do that!" Your opponent says, "No, no; you did it, you have to drop your guys onto the map now." You don't have to; you may or may not. Although I have yet to figure out why you would not, especially since you might not get another good roll later. Perhaps if you wanted to wait until the opponent moved out his or her army from the starting area would provide a reason for waiting.

[Nooblar]

...If the weather's clear and you choose to stay in the plane, you have to roll again next turn.

And deal with an angry C/O :)

[toddrew]

I would suppose that the only real use of the "may" for drop would be if you did not want to drop on that turn, but rolled for drop out of habit or by accident.

*Stickler alert*
One is required to roll for the drop before order markers are placed each round, but depending on the result the controlling player has the option to place or not to place. Of course, in practice, if a player has no intention of placing the AE, we don't roll.

Interesting about being able to drop onto ladders.

[Eclipse]

Yeah, if you roll the Drop you can choose not to place the figures. If you do pass on the Drop though, you have to roll again to see if you can Drop in future rounds.

[Revdyer]

I would suppose that the only real use of the "may" for drop would be if you did not want to drop on that turn, but rolled for drop out of habit or by accident.

*Stickler alert*
One is required to roll for the drop before order markers are placed each round, but depending on the result the controlling player has the option to place or not to place. Of course, in practice, if a player has no intention of placing the AE, we don't roll.

Interesting about being able to drop onto ladders.

You are quite right, toddrew, I stand kindly corrected.

[netherspirit]

Hmmm so you can drop onto ladder rungs...not sure how they decided on that one, but oh well.

[kenjib]

Remember however, that they cannot land under an overhang, so they would not be able to land on a ladder rung if there is a figure occupying a ladder rung space above where they would land (thus creating an overhang).

How do you think this applies to multiple AE dropping at the same time? Is the drop sequential so that you can put one AE at the bottom of the ladder, another above him on the same ladder, another above that one on the same ladder, and the last one on top yet again (all provided that they are not adjacent). Alternatively, is it a simultaneous thing where the ones underneath would be considered an illegal placement, even if they are placed first.

I think the first interpretation seems the most straightforward.

[Draconious]

For the AE they have to drop at least one space apart...

This is (my guess) to simulate the size of the parachute as they fall... not that one could not land on another guys head, but they are more likely to spread out, and they are sort of landing at the same time so... Hmm to obad you could not let the chute fall on enemys head lol... no line of sight ;).


So in my game they would not be able to be on same ladder... cuz in the sky they would be spaced out more... and I dont think they had much control over the chutes landing spots in WW II ;)

[happyjosiah]

I think we ought to ask this/these questions. WotC looks bored to me now that the KMS thing has been settled.

[netherspirit]

I think we ought to ask this/these questions. WotC looks bored to me now that the KMS thing has been settled.

From what was posted above answering this question it appears to have come from Hasbro before the switch to WotC.

Thank you for contacting Hasbro with your question on Heroscape! I apologize for the delay in my response, but I wanted to make sure my ladder ruling was correct!

1. The Airborne Elite cannot land beneath a ledge/overhang.

2. The Airborne Elite can land on a ladder rung when using The Drop . Remember however, that they cannot land under an overhang, so they would not be able to land on a ladder rung if there is a figure occupying a ladder rung space above where they would land (thus creating an overhang).

I hope that answers your question(s). If there is anything else I can help you with, please visit www.hasbro.com or respond to this e-mail.

[happyjosiah]

Ah. Still, the one AE on top of another is intriguing.

[kenjib]

For the AE they have to drop at least one space apart...


It just says they can't be adjacent, which doesn't necessarily mean one space apart...

The Drop
Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of each round, before you place Order Markers, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher you may place all 4 Airborne Elite figures on any empty spaces. You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures, or on glyphs.

[netherspirit]

The fact that The Drop says they have to land on a space but they can now land on rungs is what perplexes me. Rungs aren't spaces, they are rungs. This isn't nearly as a big of a deal that the KMS thing was. I am just curious how they came to this decision.

[LilNewbie]

The fact that The Drop says they have to land on a space but they can now land on rungs is what perplexes me. Rungs aren't spaces, they are rungs. This isn't nearly as a big of a deal that the KMS thing was. I am just curious how they came to this decision.

I think they watched The Longest Day and thought..."Now that would be cool."


Still, poor Red Buttons.

Newb.

[ninthdoc]

The fact that The Drop says they have to land on a space but they can now land on rungs is what perplexes me. Rungs aren't spaces, they are rungs. This isn't nearly as a big of a deal that the KMS thing was. I am just curious how they came to this decision.

Actually, rungs are spaces in that they serve the same purpose as spaces and must follow the same basic rules as spaces (disengage, places for figures to move and end movement, etc.).

[netherspirit]

The fact that The Drop says they have to land on a space but they can now land on rungs is what perplexes me. Rungs aren't spaces, they are rungs. This isn't nearly as a big of a deal that the KMS thing was. I am just curious how they came to this decision.

Actually, rungs are spaces in that they serve the same purpose as spaces and must follow the same basic rules as spaces (disengage, places for figures to move and end movement, etc.).

I just looked at the Castle rulebook again and they are actually called "Rung Spaces." I am no longer perplexed, woot. I hate being perplexed its so uncomfortable.

[Revdyer]

nether, they must be very good paratroopers. Talk about your elite!

[Dennys]

Ok, just to add flame to the fire...

Since they cant land under an overhang, or UNDER another figure, what if the first guy lands on say Rung 2, and the next one lands on rung 7?

Theoretically if you have a very large ladder, the entire stick could land on it, in order.

[Aldin]

Theoretically if you have a very large ladder, the entire stick could land on it, in order.

I've played on a map like that (four castle walls high if I recall correctly) and, so long as they weren't adjacent I don't have any problem with that.

~Aldin, who thought taking a complete round trying to get up a stupid ladder was ridiculous

[Eclipse]

~Aldin, who thought taking a complete round trying to get up a stupid ladder was ridiculous

If you didn't have a ladder, it would have taken 2 complete rounds to do it. :D

[dnutt99]

~Aldin, who thought taking a complete round trying to get up a stupid ladder was ridiculous

I can't but in some small way feel a bit responsible for that. :oops:
Am I right? :wink: (I'm thinkin' "The Heights" once upon a gameday.)

[Aldin]

~Aldin, who thought taking a complete round trying to get up a stupid ladder was ridiculous

I can't but in some small way feel a bit responsible for that. :oops:
Am I right? :wink: (I'm thinkin' "The Heights" once upon a gameday.)

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

And I didn't have a single squad of Minions or Sentinels to my name... :oops:

~Aldin

[Parduz]

As you've mentioned the roll for the elite, we use that "rule":
once you roll 13, you're allowed to place the elite WHEN YOU WANT.

We've talked a lot, and the common feeling was that the dice simulate the tipical "where the hell is air support? call them again!", a not a problem of "weather".
So, when you have your 13, then you're free to use Elite as you want.

[1shot_1kill]

If you look in the rules for castles on pg. 7 it shows a monk stealth leaping to the 3rd rung from the top of the ladder he is landing on. So I don't see why the AE shouldn't be able to drop onto a ladder as long as they don't violate the adjacency rule on their card.

[RobWeaver]

Are ladders listed as terrain in the scenarios? Do you get a bunch of 'em if you're the attacker? Does the defender get some of them so he can reinforce the parapets?

[Revdyer]

Are ladders listed as terrain in the scenarios? Do you get a bunch of 'em if you're the attacker? Does the defender get some of them so he can reinforce the parapets?

Ladders are immovable terrain. They don't belong to either player, but are simply part of the map.

[RobWeaver]

That's what I thought. Then I set up the scenario that comes with the castle and realized that for the attacker, it's a bloodbath. Frontal assault on a highly fortified position. Then I was hoping I'd misread it, and they were supposed to get a bunch of ladders. Then I started thinking about how the defender can't reinforce the walls, as there are no ladders between the ground and the walls, or the different levels of the fortification itself. That's gonna require a house rule, I can see it comin'.

[Jormi_Boced]

That's what I thought. Then I set up the scenario that comes with the castle and realized that for the attacker, it's a bloodbath. Frontal assault on a highly fortified position. Then I was hoping I'd misread it, and they were supposed to get a bunch of ladders. Then I started thinking about how the defender can't reinforce the walls, as there are no ladders between the ground and the walls, or the different levels of the fortification itself. That's gonna require a house rule, I can see it comin'.

There are ladders on the wall in that scenario.

[RobWeaver]

I must have missed that detail! Mydifficulties with terrain are legendary.

[dok]

Thank you for contacting Hasbro with your question on Heroscape! I apologize for the delay in my response, but I wanted to make sure my ladder ruling was correct!

1. The Airborne Elite cannot land beneath a ledge/overhang.

2. The Airborne Elite can land on a ladder rung when using The Drop . Remember however, that they cannot land under an overhang, so they would not be able to land on a ladder rung if there is a figure occupying a ladder rung space above where they would land (thus creating an overhang).

I hope that answers your question(s). If there is anything else I can help you with, please visit www.hasbro.com or respond to this e-mail.
The search function saved me from starting a new thread, but I think this should get added to the advanced FAQ, assuming it's still the accepted ruling.

[Simpsons Scaper]

Thank you for contacting Hasbro with your question on Heroscape! I apologize for the delay in my response, but I wanted to make sure my ladder ruling was correct!

1. The Airborne Elite cannot land beneath a ledge/overhang.

2. The Airborne Elite can land on a ladder rung when using The Drop . Remember however, that they cannot land under an overhang, so they would not be able to land on a ladder rung if there is a figure occupying a ladder rung space above where they would land (thus creating an overhang).

I hope that answers your question(s). If there is anything else I can help you with, please visit www.hasbro.com (http://www.hasbro.com) or respond to this e-mail.
The search function saved me from starting a new thread, but I think this should get added to the advanced FAQ, assuming it's still the accepted ruling.
:word:I agree this should be in the advanced ruling.