Song of Blades and Heroes

[EyeOfSauron]

Anybody play the miniatures skirmish game Song of Blades and Heroes?

How does it compare/overlap/compliment Heroscape?

[Cavalier]

Check out :gb:'s custom Dungeon that he uses with the game:
Grungebob's Dungeons new pics March 10th pg 16. new room. (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=15408&highlight=Song+Blades+Heroes)

[Lotus]

I bought it, but found I did not like the activation system (which is what most people are drawn to if for), therefore found the game too lacking for me. However, I can say that the writer is a great guy who works very hard to ensure the game stays fun, and that alone gives it mad props by me.

[paradox22]

Awesome game! Flexible, simple, well written/supported, and lastly great fun! Highly recomended.

[S1R_ART0R1US]

Roland wrote a review article about it here: Link (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=558)

[mrbistro]

I am huge fan of SBH and can't say enough good things about it. Solid rules set and you can design your own figures with it as well, and can pretty much use any fantasy figs you have lying about. Great game at a great price.

[LilNewbie]

Bistro,

What scale of figures do you use, 15mm or 25/28mm? I plan on using DDM figures. Just curious as to what you set the Short/Medium/Long conversion when using grided (hex or square) terrain? I was thinking about using 3/6/10 on HS terrain and standard book listing on 1" grids.

Newb.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I'm interested! Just wish there wasn't a ton of other games I need to play first! :grumble:

[LilNewbie]

LOL! I fully understand, HEH! I've been looking for an easy game that can utilize the DDM figures that have been sitting around unused. This looks like it has the potential for that game (there are few others but this one is supported by the author and uses keywords which is a big plus in my book). Also it allows my friends to use their figures from other games without having to rebase anything. Hopefully, it plays as well as it reads and my friends like it.

Newb.

[Gabbi]

love it very much. quite different from other games (mainly due to its activation system).

[LilNewbie]

We played our first game of SBH tonight and really liked the system. The game is very fluid with each side taking turns quickly (sometimes too quick :D ). The rules are simple but offer a lot of tactical decisions such as the order of figure activations and how far to take a chance on activation dice for a particular figure. Looks like my group has a new game to use all of our DDM figures now!

Here are a few pictures of the last part of the game:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/100_3267.jpg
The Orcs have been pillaging nearby farms so the local Baron decided to ramp up patrols in the area. The Orc raiding party did not expect to meet any resistance as they looted this farm. It wasn't their lucky day...
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/100_3266.jpg
The magic user (left figure in green holding a white orb in the air) gets three activations and casts a power 3 transfix spell on the Orc leader (the gray Orc near the magic user). The Orc leader failed his quality check and became transfixed. The Human leader (the figure in the blue cape) moved forward and dispatched the Orc leader causing the other Orcs to make morale checks. The Orc engaged closest to the fallen Orc leader routed (3 failures on the morale check) and the other Orcs decided it was best to find easier pickings at other farms in the area.


Newb.

[TheMedic]

Great little game. I bought it to get full use of the 1/72 scale Caesar fantasy figures I bought, and am currently building up a load of Hirst Arts building and ruins to compliment it. To echo others, it's a really nice simple game to get to grips with, and is very well supported by it's writer and yahoo group.

[EyeOfSauron]

Finally purchased it and played a game. Definitely fast and easy. However, it didn't "flow" as smoothly as I thought it would...perhaps I was over-thinking the strategy choices and modifiers? Maybe next play will go smoother?


How does it compare/overlap/compliment Heroscape?As to my original question, here are some observations:

I'd say that this is a great game to use with figures you don't necessarily have the time to re-base and/or create full stats & specials for.
If you thought HS stats were the bare-bones (compared to other systems), SBH boils down stats to 2 numbers!
Although the rules suggest substituting hexes for inches, if you are going to use hexes, you might as well play HS. Likewise, if you want to use HS figs, but don't have the time, space, or inclination to set up a map...you might as well play SBH.
One of the main mechanics of SBH is the activation system. Could this mechanic substitute cleanly into HS for the Order Marker mechanic (leaving everything else the same)?

[LilNewbie]

Song of Arthur and Merlin (SAM) was just released (Dec. 23). It is an Arthurian Legend sourcebook for Song of Blades and Heroes. You have three variants of the legend to use: High Medieval King, Welsh King or Historical King. Of course, you can always add in other aspects of SBH to create your own scenarios or legends. The sourcebook adds some new abilities and adds some twists to existing abilities and the magic system. SAM does refer back to the original rulebook (Song of Blades and Heroes), Song of Gold and Darkness and Song of Wind and Water. I believe Ganesha games will be offering a combo deal to get all the rulebooks at a decent price.

Check it out if you are interested in a fun, simple game where you can use any of your 15mm or 25/28/30mm figures you have available!

www.ganeshagames.blogspot.com (http://www.ganeshagames.blogspot.com)

Newb.

[mrbistro]

Bistro,

What scale of figures do you use, 15mm or 25/28mm? I plan on using DDM figures. Just curious as to what you set the Short/Medium/Long conversion when using grided (hex or square) terrain? I was thinking about using 3/6/10 on HS terrain and standard book listing on 1" grids.

Newb.
Gah! Sorry I missed your question Newb. I play it almost exclusively with D&D minis on Heroscape hexes. The ranges I use are 3/5/9 at the designer's suggestion. He stated that double of one range should always be just slightly more than the next length up.

[LilNewbie]

Played another great game of SBH tonight.

The backstory used was that Orcs and Hobgoblins had recently raided a small village in the late Autumn months for food and gear to use over the coming Winter. A small warband of Orcs and Hobgoblins were still pillaging the village when a small contigent of the local constabulary showed up to run off the raiders.

These are some pictures taken during the middle of the game:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2001.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2003.jpg

Close-up from the Orcs perspective:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2005.jpg

The Raiders pulled of a small Victory by defeating the local Marshall which caused the remaining crossbowman to flee. The Victory did cost the lives of several Orcs and Hobgoblins but that just means less mouths to feed over the Winter (that is, from an Orc's perspective ;) ).
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2006.jpg

SBH=Fantastic game!

Newb.

[A_Train]

This makes me really want to try SBH.

EDIT:
A couple quick questions.
Where do the figures start? Do you just pick sides of the map? Or is it placed about like heat of the battle, or is it scenario dependent (Like the Orcs make have been in the middle of the farm when the heroes arrived).
Also, where is a good place to get a grass like mat as shown in the pictures?

And could you give me some pointers on where to find a lot of cheap fantasy style miniatures? Heroscape is the only miniatures set I own right now, and if I'm going to get into another game, I wouldn't mind having some variety of figures.

[LilNewbie]

This makes me really want to try SBH.

EDIT:
A couple quick questions.
Where do the figures start? Do you just pick sides of the map? Or is it placed about like heat of the battle, or is it scenario dependent (Like the Orcs make have been in the middle of the farm when the heroes arrived).
Also, where is a good place to get a grass like mat as shown in the pictures?

And could you give me some pointers on where to find a lot of cheap fantasy style miniatures? Heroscape is the only miniatures set I own right now, and if I'm going to get into another game, I wouldn't mind having some variety of figures.

The standard scenarios have figures start within a specified distance of the table edge. We decided before playing the game that the Orcs would already be in the village so they setup closer to the center of the table than the humans.

We use D&D miniatures (DDM) for the game and you can still find most common and uncommon figures fairly cheap on EBay. They are prepainted and have uniform bases (which doesn't matter in the game but is nice looking). One of the guys involved in the group has gone through the major races represented in DDM and created stats based on the figure's name. It makes it simple to recognize figures on the tabletop. You could also use Mage Knight and Confrontation figures for the game since base size does not matter for gameplay and you can either use the entries in the books for the figures or make your own.

The green felt mat is actually an old Mage Knight play mat. You would see the preprinted starting zones if I flipped the mat over. You can purchase some decent green cloth or felt from any arts/crafts store that sells material. Most Walmarts have a craft section too and they run specials all the time on spare bolts of material.

I can't recommend this game enough. The more we play this game the more we like it.

Newb.

[A_Train]

Well, I ordered it (Just the starting game for now), and I am checking my email ever 5 minutes impatiently waiting for it to arrive. How long did it take when you ordered it?
I can't wait to play it, right now I am checking out check DDM figs on ebay, trying to imagine which ones will work best with the character classes needed for the game. I can't wait to read over the 180 given creatures. And I'm definitely going to make some of my own.

Now I need to start working on some battle terrain.Part of me wants to make a diorama style terrain, but then I am stuck with that static map forever, but if I go with the felt map, which will look less realistic, I can have more customization for each game. Not sure which way I will go.

[LilNewbie]

It took a few hours to receive the document but I believe the creator lives in Italy so there is a time difference and he mentioned he is in the middle of moving to a new house on the Yahoo group.

Personally, I don't want to play on the same terrain all the time so I go for the modular or customizable terrain fields. They don't look as great as a full terrain diorama but I think the battlefields in the pictures above look pretty good overall.

I would recommend start playing the game by using the terrain you have from Heroscape. Use the ruins, trees, jungle pieces for terrain as you build up your other terrain collection slowly. You can pick up some green and blue 8.5 x 11" pieces of felt and cut them out for small copses of trees and ponds. Then put a few HS trees on the green felt to add some dimension to them. It's a cheap way to get some 3d terrain without too much hassle.

Newb.

[A_Train]

Just got it, reading it over now, with specific attention to learning the Special skills.

Excited!

[Pilgrim]

Has anyone tried the dungeon crawl expansion rules?

[A_Train]

Have read over the rules a few times, but haven't gotten a chance to play just yet. I was wondering if anyone had made up any house rules for SBH.
A few things that stuck out to me were:

Ranged units being unable to attack figures who are engaged with friendly figures. I understand this is because you may hit your own figure, but I think it would be more fun if you could take the shot, but have risk of striking your own figure (something that could be based off of quality).

The limit of 100 points (when playing with 300 total) being able to go towards personality characters. I was creating my first warband, and wanted both a human leader and an elf magic user. This was not possible. Do you guys break the rules on this one at all, or to you abide by it.


Nothing else at the moment, can't wait to play it.

[mrbistro]

Has anyone tried the dungeon crawl expansion rules?
The dungeon rules are very solid and be implemented in many different ways depending what your tastes are. Really, I would say every expansion is worth it if only for the new special abilities you get. But the dungeon expansion is easily my favorite.

[mrbistro]

I can't wait to play it, right now I am checking out check DDM figs on ebay, trying to imagine which ones will work best with the character classes needed for the game. I can't wait to read over the 180 given creatures. And I'm definitely going to make some of my own.
eBay is pricey. I recommend gamehollow or miniaturemarket.com. Both have excellent prices on the commons (which is what you want to start with), and you'll save considerably over eBay's shipping costs.

The limit of 100 points (when playing with 300 total) being able to go towards personality characters. I was creating my first warband, and wanted both a human leader and an elf magic user. This was not possible. Do you guys break the rules on this one at all, or to you abide by it.
This is a very important rule and I recommend you don't break it, otherwise the game becomes very unbalanced. If you want more personalities, play with more points. Most players play with 500pt warbands.

[A_Train]

Thanks for the links to those sites Mr. Bistro. I've also been browsing. Auggies Games (http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/auggiesgames/StoreFront).
Another couple of questions for you guys, that I thought up while browsing. How many duplicates of a unit will you bring to battle. Maybe I am still thinking too much Heroscape when I look at this, but I sometimes plan a war band with 3 or 4 'Human Archers" for example. Is this something you guys do a lot of, or do you tend to stick with one of each unit?

If you do use duplicates, in general do you find it easier to represent them all with the same model, or would you use different models (all archers, but different poses). Which is easier to keep track of?

Thanks

[LilNewbie]

There is not much to track in the standard game. A token or two for different effects (transfixed models, tough, etc.) We tend to use the same model for multiple figures with the same stats/name. It helps in identifying the figures quickly but you don't have to do that. Just make sure your opponent knows what each figure is supposed to represent.

I would say you would probably need a maximum of 3 figures per unit type (maybe 4 for swarm armies like Kobolds/Goblins).

Auggies is a great source for DDM figures. I've used that store many times with great success.

Newb.

[mrbistro]

Yeah, don't overthink it A Train. SBH was made so you could throw a handful of whatever together and have a game. I got into DDM solely for SBH. The best buys when getting started are whatever models are cheapest. Need some dwarfs? Just buy 3-7 of the $0.25 guys and you'll be all set. Once you have a small collection built up you can start filling in the gaps here and there.

[A_Train]

You're right, I was over thinking it.
I went through the site and then looked at my cart, and it was almost $50. That totally goes against the purpose of the game.

On a second go through, I think I got everything I need for starters, and it cost $12. Much better.

[A_Train]

I played my first game tonight.
I used 2 human warriors, two elf archers, a human barbarian and a Elf Wizards against 4 Orc Warriors, 1 Orc Archer, One Savage Orc and One Orc Leader.

It was a close game and I lept into the lead. But in the end, I lost, after losing the barbarian to a gruesome kill that caused one of my Warriors to retreat.

We did forget to do a Morale check after each of our armies were halved, and had to look at the rules frequently, but it was a really fun game.


Thanks for the suggestion!

[LilNewbie]

Winter has arrived and the Orcs have solidified their pact with the Hobgoblins. Raiding the outlying farms of the Human settlements has made it possible to survive the harsh winter. The Humans have not sit idly by though. They have sent trackers into the wilderness to locate the Orcs and Hobgoblins winter camps. The location of one of their rendezvous points has been discovered and a small strike force has been sent out to dispatch the Orc and Hobgoblin leaders during one their planned meetings.

The Human's timing was perfect and caught the Orcs and Hobgoblins by surprise but their initial shock wore off quickly and Orcs counterattacked. The struggle disturbed a nearby hibernating Dire Bear who ventured out to scare off the interlopers.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2007.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2008.jpg

We were trying out some rules for a wandering monster in this game represented by the Dire Bear. After both of our armies got to activate, we rolled to see who would get to control the monster. The winner could control the Dire Bear and it was considered friendly to that person's forces during that activation (it could leave engagements with friendly models and would not attack or be attacked by them). Ties for control would go to the person who did not control the Dire Bear last activation. It worked great and the Orcs had to spend a full turn dispatching the Dire Bear which gave the Humans a chance to get in better position. A Hobgoblin Archer made the killing blow after the Dire Bear and been pushed back by a melee attack and then knock down by another ranged attack from an Orc Archer.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2009.jpg

The Orc leader was killed by the Sword of Glory after being knocked down by a lucky blow from the Human Sgt. This caused the Orcs/Hobgoblins to flee but the battle turned when the Hobgoblin Wizard started transfixing the Humans. After three turns and some unlucky rolling by the Humans, he had transfixed three Human figures which allowed the other Orc and Hobgoblins to have better chances of removing them from the conflict...permanently.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2010.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/SBH2011.jpg

The Orcs won but the loss of the Orc Leader will slow down the raiding parties as the Orcs regroup and begin the process of selecting a new leader. The Hobgoblins will wait paitiently while the Orcs sort out their new leadership. There is no need to waste good Hobgoblins when there are so many Orcs willing to fight the humans for them.

Newb.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Those are some sweet images, NewB. Looks like a grand time!

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Man...you guys are seriously making me want to buy this!

[LilNewbie]

Those are some sweet images, NewB. Looks like a grand time!


Thanks! We enjoy this game a lot. The tide of battle turned several times during the game and you can never really tell how it is going to go until the end (the activation rolls really keep it exciting).

We are planning a Giants (Hill, Fire, etc.) versus puny humanoids for next week's game. More pictures to follow.

Man...you guys are seriously making me want to buy this!

Then I still have work to do. :D

Newb.

[stumpy_man]

Just a quick question here. This game looks really cool however the only miniatures I have lying around besides my Heroscape ones are a box of Star Wars Minis (and I don't really want to buy the game to just play Heroscape with). Technically Song of Blades and Heroes is for fantasy miniatures but is it really that big of a deal? I'd probably have to make my own stats because I guess the figures with the game are all fantasy but would it work at least for a while until I get more fantasy minis?

[LilNewbie]

There is a game called Mutants and Death Ray Guns (MDRG) from the same author. It's a post-apocalyptic game but does have more detailed rules for using modern/post-modern firearms which would be easy to transfer to a sci-fi game. There are rumors he is working on a Sci-fi version but it might be a while on that one.

Link to Ganesha Games: http://ganeshagames.blogspot.com/

Newb.

[stumpy_man]

Thanks. Mutants and Death Ray Guns looks like it would easily work with the minis I have. I'll probably pick it up pretty soon.

[LilNewbie]

Ganesha Games just announced the release of their Horror based game: Fear and Faith. It is built on the SBH engine and like all the games from Ganesha looks great!

http://ganeshagames.blogspot.com/

Newb.

[Melwing17]

I just recently discovered SBH, and am in love with the rulebook. I don't have any 'expansions' (is that what this game calls them?) yet, just the base rulebook. I'm planning on playing my first game later today or tonight. Eventually I definitely want to do themed warbands and scenarios, but today will probably just be a mishmash of different types of units to learn the basics. Here's my plan for my first warband:

Dwarf Crossbowman 24 points
Figure: GamesWorkshop LotR- Dwarf Ranger, with bow

Dwarf Orcslayer 40 points
Figure: GamesWorkshop LotR- Dwarf Ranger, one with a 2H axe

Lizardman Shaman 42 points (Personality)
Figure: D&D Minis- Cleric of Laogzed

Fire Elemental 50 points (Personality)
Figure: WoW Minis- Enraged Fire Spirit

Giant Wasp 66 points
Figure: Heroscape- Sujoah

Goblin Sneak 20 points
Figure: Mage Knight- Goblin Volunteer

Human, Light Infantry x2 56 points
Figures:Heroscape- Roman Archers

298/300 points

Before I start work on my opposition's warband (it may be my wife but more than likely just against myself), any advice on this one? I'd appreciate input from you experienced guys. :) I just tried to give myself a variety to 'test the waters', so to speak. It bugs me to not have a theme, but hey. ;)

[LilNewbie]

For the first couple of games, I would use his listed stats for figures to get familiar with the game (it won't take long).

I recommend including at least one Leader in each Warband and stick to the 1/3 points for Personalities at first (which you did in your first warband).

Your Warband looks fine overall but what is the story behind the Lizardmen, Gobbos and Dwarves teaming up?

We tend to increase the Personalities limit based on the world we are using. LotR/WotR tends to be character heavy so we usually go 1/2 points for personalities but tend to stay at 1/3 for D&D type worlds.

The Yahoo Group has some good reference sheets to download and some good tips for solo play.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/songofblades/

We are planning a LotR game later next week and will try to snap some photos of the game in progress.

Newb.

[Melwing17]

Ack, I did forget the leader part. I did stick to the 1/3 points for Personalities at least :)

And yeah, I'm using all the stats from the manual. I think keeping this one simple is the route I want to go :) I'll check out the yahoo group too. Thanks, man.


edit: I decided to hold off on playing that first game. Because after reading the rulebook 2 1/2 times, I think I'm going to be totally hooked once I actually play. And then I thought about how many minis I have sitting around waiting for me to paint them- and they happen to be figures I'd love to use in SBH . So I'm gonna do some painting first, otherwise they may not ever get painted. :)

[mrbistro]

Welcome to another great mini's system Melwing. I fell in love the first time I played it. And in addition to it being fun to play, its various expansions are darned cheap. While I find them all worth buying (especially for those new abilities), Song of Gold and Darkness is an especially good choice.

I'll confess the lack of theme in your warband throws me for a loop, but you might be interested in knowing the designer likes playing with highly diverse warbands as well. Overall it seems like a balanced list.

[Melwing17]

Thanks, mrbistro! Song of Gold and Darkness is actually next on my list. I was debating whether to play a few games with just the base rules I have now before adding to it. Any advice in that regard?

And I agree, the unthemed warband thing drives me nuts, my only motivation was getting the chance to see how the different types of 'classes' work. :)

I finished up painting a squad of Warhammer orks last night, I still have some more LotR (GW) Dwarf Rangers to finish, and then some Haradrim Raiders, Warriors of the Last Alliance (elves), and Mordor Orcs left to finish painting up. I plan on using them all for Song of Blades :)

[mrbistro]

Definitely get a few sessions of the base game under your belt first. The game is simple, but it does have a very different feel from most other miniature games, and you'll probably want to be comfortable with it before you move on. None of the expansions are truly necessary. Each one offers more special abilities and more rosters, along with a host of new rules to add variety to your games. I've been very pleased with how meaty the supplementary books are.

[Melwing17]

I'm in the middle of my first game (finished up alot of painting)- having a blast. Ended up doing a theme after all, thank goodness. I've got LotR Dwarves vs mixed Orcs.

I'm having a bit of trouble with one thing in particular, wondering if one of you folks could help :)

Scenario 1:
Orc is currently fallen and engaged base-to-base with Dwarf. Dwarf is a ranged attacker. When the target is fallen is the only time you can use a ranged attack while engaged with the target (per the rules, if I'm understanding that correctly). The rules say that fallen figures are attacked at +2, without specifying melee or ranged. But the "Play Summary Sheet" says "Target Fallen = no modifier" under the 'Ranged Combat Modifiers' section.

Does the dwarf get to attack with +2 or not? Hopefully that all made sense. I played it with no modifier.

Here's a couple of pics of the battlefield.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8209/firstsbhbattlezoomedout.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2095/firstsbhbattlecloseupdw.jpg

Dwarf warband:
Dwarf Orcslayer - 40pts x2
Dwarf Commander - 95pts
Dwarf Skirmisher - 18pts x3
Dwarf Warrior - 34pts x 2

All are LotR (GW) Dwarf figures.

Orc warband:
Orc Standard-bearer - 60pts (played by Ornak)
Orc Shaman - 38pts (played by the WoW minis female orc)
Orc Archer - 29pts x3 (played by Warhammer 40k orks... laser bows, apparently)
Orc Warrior - 23 pts x4 (^)
Goblin Sneak - 20pts

[LilNewbie]

The dwarf doesn't have to use the Ranged attack if he is base-to-base with a fallen figure. He could choose to make a melee attack versus the fallen figure and get the bonuses. He might have chosen to attack another non-adajacent figure with the ranged attack instead even if base-to-base with the fallen figure.

Cool map and figures!

Newb.

[Melwing17]

Oh, okay. I get it, I had totally missed the fact that a typically ranged unit could still use a melee attack. That helps alot, thank you. :)

[mrbistro]

Nice looking setup!

[Melwing17]

Thanks! Except for the Heroscape trees, I actually put all that together in the last couple of days, specifically for playing Song of Blades. The green terrain is a wool fabric from JoAnn Fabrics, it was $8 a yard, I believe- and this is about a yard and a half. I'm really pleased with how it looks, aside from the wrinkles. Those won't be hard to get out, though.

The lake is blue felt cut into shape, and the brown outline below it is out of an old blanket from the thrift store. The sandy/rocky borders around the lake, I made those by cutting oval-ish pieces of cardboard and brushing on glue, flocking half with sand and half with grass flocking. Then of course, just glued on the two rocks with a small plant item between.

The rocks are from my front yard. The reddish rock that you can't really see too well is an old aquarium decoration that I painted up brownish red. It has cave-like entrances on the front that you can't see in these pictures. Like 50 cents at the thrift store. Score.

The log cabin was like $5 unfinished and unpainted at Michael's craft store. I stained it, and then flocked around the base and roof with grass flocking and natural Pacific NW moss. The little barn next to it is actually a birdhouse I found at the thrift store. Didn't change anything about it except adding the moss around the bottom (and the top to cover the birdhouse hole :lol: ).

[mrbistro]

Nice job! Don't forget the rules are hex-compatible so you can use your Heroscape terrain too.

Man, you've got me itching to play again.

[A_Train]

Got me itching to play too. My number one problem is convincing my friends that there is a reason to play this instead of Heroscape. I really like the ability to keep themed battles with this game, but we almost always wind up playing heroscape anyway.

[Sweetcurse]

I had avoiding this thread until now...wow! I have tons...I mean TONS of minis form different games and many unpainted stuff that is crying for a system to use them with. Much if it came from my time as a Mordheim player (a wonderful game BTW) and now I have more minis than I'll ever use! I have a fully painted Elf Shadow Warriors band that is so beautiful it makes me sad to see it stored away. I'll have to get this then.

Seems to me like this system could be used for just about anything, fantasy, scifi, horror, superheroes, etc. Is this the case?

[A_Train]

Yes, you'll likely have to buy the expansions (They're only a few dollars each) to fully take advantage of Sci Fi or Horror type units. But really, you can uses this system for anything.

[Melwing17]

mrbistro- Yeah, but I quite like not using the hexes. This is the only other miniatures game I'm playing (or have played) besides Heroscape, so I really enjoy having the open board and measuring, etc. I was, however, considering using some of my flocked HS tiles to use for the occasional hill or rise, until I get some crafted.

I'm really excited for my wife to get home (she's been out of town on business since I started Song of Blades), because she is going to like this so much more than Heroscape. She'll play HS with me now and then, but she doesn't really dig it. She's more of a D&D player- I got the dungeon rules (Song of Gold and Darkness) yesterday, and I think we're going to have blast with this. :D

sweetcurse- I would encourage buying the other rulesets too to support the creators, but you can easily use the Song of Blades "Orc Archer" stats for a Warhammer 40k Ork with a laser pistol and chainsaw (like I did). But like A_Train said, you won't be getting the most of it.

[LilNewbie]

The Horror game (Fear and Faith) was just released and it is great! It is semi-compatible with SBH (Fear tests are triggered somewhat differently but work great within the horror theme). We tend to use rules and abilities from the different expansions to be able to represent specific models in play. We are planning on playing a LotR-based game this Thursday. The biggest change for the LotR game is we are playing 600 points with 300 points allowed for personalities. The increase in points is due to the units costing a bit more than normal SBH units (they average about 40 points).

The adaptability of the game toward any genre/figure set is one of the biggest strengths of the game. Another strength is that the game has a very organic (natural) flow to it. It is also a very simple ruleset, quick to learn and relatively inexpensive.

Newb.

[Melwing17]

Exciting, LilNewbie. I'll look forward to hearing about it (the LotR game). I wish we were in closer proximity, I have a small collection of LotR figures now (24 Mordor Orcs, 24 Dwarf Rangers, 24 Elf Warriors of the Last Alliance, and 6 Haradrim Riders).

[LilNewbie]

I'll try to remember the camera to snap some photos of the game. Unfortunately, our figures are unpainted at this time since we just puchased them a few weeks ago for the War of the Ring game. SBH is our go to skirmish level game and figured we needed to throw our LotR stuff into the SBH mix.

Newb.

[mrbistro]

The Ganesha Games Miniature Games Buying Guide

Song of Blades and Heroes

Generic rules for playing with fantasy miniatures
This is the core book
Provides basic rules, rosters of unit types, special abilities, and simple campaign rulesSong of Gold and Darkness

Expansion for Song of Blades and Heroes
Provides more rosters and special abilities
Provides rules for dungeons - allowing skirmishes in dungeons or RPG-style dungeon exploration
Song of Wind and Water

Expansion for Song of Blades and Heroes
Provides more rosters and special abilities
Provides in-depth rules for weather, a wide variety of terrains including fantastic terrain, and details on the four elementsSong of Arthur and Merlin

Expansion for Song of Blades and Heroes
Provides Arthurian rosters and special abilities
Full rules for playing skirmishes based on Arthurian Legend
Provides 3 sub-genres of the legends to play with: Romantic, Welsh, and HistoricalSong of the Splintered Lands

Expansion for Song of Blades and Heroes
Campaign setting for miniatures from Splintered Light Miniatures
Full sourcebook with maps, histories, and rostersMutants and Death Ray Guns

Stand alone game based on the SBH mechanics
Post-Apocalyptic setting complete with zombies,human survivors, mutated animals, sentient plants, cyborgs and robots, etc.
Rules for firearms, armor, and all sorts of futuristic gearSong of Drums and Shakos

Stand alone game based on the SBH mechanics
Napoleonic setting featuring the forces of France, Britain, Prussia, Austria, and Russia
Rules for Napoleonic weapons and historical scenariosFear and Faith

Stand alone game based on the SBH mechanics
Horror skirmishes in a Victorian or modern setting
Rules for monsters from novels, movies, and TV, as well as rules for handling fear and insanity

[LilNewbie]

Nice job on the buying guide, Bistro!

"Buy them all!" would have worked too!

:)

Newb.

[Melwing17]

Think it would be appropriate/acceptable for me to start a new thread in this section specifically for my battle reports (I plan to often do them in an RP fashion) for Song of Blades?

[LilNewbie]

You could do a blog and link it from here.

Newb.

[Elstree]

Ok, I finally broke down and bought SBH and SGD. I have great hopes that this will be the set of dungeon crawl rules I've been looking for to use with my Heroscape figs and my Mage Knight 3D Dungeons terrain!

[LilNewbie]

I think you will like it,Elstree. Bistro speaks highly of the Dungeon rules (I've only played the skirmish game but plan to start playing the dungeon game soon...too many games, so little time...) :D

Newb.

[Melwing17]

You could do a blog and link it from here.

Newb.

Excellent idea, and I've done just that:

http://melwing17.blogspot.com/

I'm preparing a Dwarves vs. Various Undead/Evil dudes battle on this battlefield:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_e7UVY8O5d_Q/SkL2xEBItVI/AAAAAAAAACw/0QY0BPZ6CKw/s720/graveyard_table_wideshot.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_e7UVY8O5d_Q/SkL2xSpdh3I/AAAAAAAAAC0/zRgLTURUe4Q/s720/graveyard_table_GYcloseup.jpg

At first I didn't dig the black for the graveyard terrain. But the more I looked at it, the better it seemed. Like the ground is unholy and just teeming with dark energy. Another plus with the graveyard is I finally get to use my busted-up fences (they came with little plastic ghosts that were freaking superglued on, they did not come off easily ;) ).

[LilNewbie]

Here are some pics of the board will be using on Thursday night. We will be using our converted LotR/WotR figures.

Rohan vs. Isengard!!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/100_3328.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/SBH/100_3329.jpg

The map is supposed to be at the edge of the forest near a ruined temple. The building ruins were purchased at Walmart in the aquarium section. They look real cool and were fairly inexpensive considering they are durable and prepainted.

Newb.

[LilNewbie]

Grats to Mr. Bistro for his release of Song of Deeds and Glory, a campaign system for the Song of Blades and Heroes game!!

http://www.ganeshagames.blogspot.com/

Looks great, Mr. Bistro!!

Newb.

[mrbistro]

Thank you sir! I'm curious to see what the response to the book will be.

[TheLion]

Song of Deeds and Glory is great. It's a must have for SBH players. Great job, MrBistro!!

Now we need Andrea to get out Power Legion ... (and Flying Lead, and... :D)

[Onacara]

Reviving this one to give Mr. Bistro a little more love.

I have been eyeing Song of Blades for quite awhile since you first started talking about it on here Bistro but totally missed where your expansion was mentioned on here. I happened across it and this has gone to the top of my list.

Great job.

[Melwing17]

Oooh, very exciting- I had been away from the site and missed the news about the campaign system. I'm flat broke at the moment but will buy it as soon as the funds are there. Is there a summary available somewhere? I didn't see one on the site- thanks :D And- congrats, good work.

[mrbistro]

Thanks gents, I appreciate the kind words.

[Melwing17]

I'm still waiting a bit to pick up Deeds and Glory- very much looking forward to it. :)

In the meantime, before I start a campaign- I have a small battle set up that I'll be playing over the next couple of days:

The Warbands:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/1/4/3/sbh_game1_original.jpg

The red line seperates the Warbands, on the left is the 'good guys'.
___________________________________
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/1/4/3/dwarveshumanselves.jpg
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/1/4/3/werewolfyetisspiders.jpg
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/1/4/3/battlefield.jpg

[LilNewbie]

Looks cool and really like the use of HS figures mixed with DDM figures. The ability to use any figures (even paper stand ups ;) ) is one of the big attractions of the game along with the simple, fast and intriguing game play.

Looking forward to seeing how the campaign turns out!

What are you considering the snow portions (white felt) on the map?

Newb.

[Mossman]

Crap! Yet another new game I'm going to have to try out. Will it ever end?

[A_Train]

But this one will cost you $5 to get into, maybe about $40 if you get every expansion.
Personally I'm still at the $5 investment, though I did spend about other $20 picking up a big bag of DnD minis from Auggies games to use. But you can get away with just using any minis you have on hand, even Heroscape. It was just my own preference not to use Heroscape here.

Its totally worth picking up.

[Mossman]

I'll have to do it. I'm a miniatures junkie, so I have tons that I haven't used in years (If anyone wants a bunch of Lionheart minis, let me know). This looks like a fun way to put many of them into use. The downside for me is that gaming time (and fiddling around on Heroscapers) cuts into writing time.

[A_Train]

Here's a game I played last night, I controlled the Wizard's party.:


On the outskirts of a kingdom, lived an old wizard. For years, he was thought of as little more than entertainment to the folk of the kingdom, and thus, was left alone. Things have changed however. The wizard, feeling slighted by the townfolk, has turns his magic against them. Harvests were ruined, cattle turned sickly and died, and the women of the town began birthing abominations.
The King has sent out a party to deal with the wizard, with instructions to return with his head to be mounted in the middle of town, for all to see.

The parties: The Wizard has the ability to bind lesser being to his will, and thus has animals that fight for him. The lion, not local to the terrain, is from the Kings own menagerie, corrupted and turned savage from the wizard's magic. Also following him is a mutated, giant centipede and an oversized wolf.
The cockatrice (mounted on the wizard's home in the picture) has been a familiar sight at the wizard's hut since he began living there, but only now do the townsfolk realize how deadly it can be. The Hyenaman warrior was unfortunate enough to cross paths with the wizard, and is now under his control serving as a personal guard. The Halfling was a known rogue from the town, who is also controlled by the will of the Wizard.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0277.jpg

The Kingdom Party:
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0278.jpg
The leader: The daughter of a great general in the Kingdom's army, looking to prove herself to her father, has eagerly accepted leadership of the party.
Three Human warriors: All battle hardered in a dozen compaigns a piece. They are brave, and well respected in the ranks of the Kingdom.
Three Human Archers: Not as brave or disciplined, these archers of the City guard are well trained and work as a cohesive unit.
One Human Hunter: This Hunter was intimidated and blackmailed by the Leader of the party to lead the party to the Wizard's hut by using old game trails, so as to arrive with surprise on their side. He is not brave, not tough and wants nothing to do with the battle.

The battlefield:
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0279.jpg

The Hunter fails to lead the war party in secret, and the Wizard is aware of their presence. His minions move out. Under the leadership of the general's daughter, the City Archers combine their attack to slay the Lion.

Seperated from the Archers and Leader, the warriors engage with the Hyenaman and cockatrice, while the Hunter is forced to engage with the giant centipede.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0280.jpg

A melee ensues, the Warriors swarm and slay the Hyena Man, but the deadly cockatrice strikes down two warriors. The Human hunter, deadly accurate with his bow, slays the centipede.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0281.jpg

Slow to cover ground, the halfling is an easy target for the City's archers as they fill his tiny body with arrows.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0282.jpg

The leader hears the screams of her warriors and goes to join them. She arrives as the 3rd warrior kills the cockatrice.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0283.jpg

The warrior bravely fights on, but his resolve weakens as the wolf pulls out his entrails.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0284.jpg

With their warparty now half killed, 2 of the 3 archers lose their courage and abandon the party.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0285.jpg

The brave archer arrives in time to witness the killing of his leader.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0286.jpg

Wishing he had retreated with his comrades. Unable to retreat, he drops his bow. Bounded by the wizard's magic, he lays down on the ground allowing the wolf to calmly, but purposefully eat out his throat.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0287.jpg

With the City's party vanquished, and the wizard angered, things don't look good for the people of the Kingdom...

[LilNewbie]

Great battle report, A_Train!! Thanks for posting!

Did you use book stats or custom stats for the units?

If you used custom stats, would you mind posting them, please? Thanks!

Newb.

[A_Train]

Thanks, I enjoyed the battle. I've actually only played SoBaH a handful of times despite owning the manual for about a year.
I've only got one friend really willing to play it with me, as the others tend to view it as just new rules to learn, when Heroscape would scratch the same itch.

With GB updating his Dungeon thread, it is making me want to try my hand at that, at which point I'd like to pick up the Songs of Gold and Darkness expansion.
To those that have that, is it really enjoyable playing as the DM, or do you just feel like you are fodder for the hero?


As for the units used above, they are all straight out of the manual.

Wizard Party:
Human Warmage
Giant Wolf
Giant Centipede
Cockatrice
Hyenaman Warrior
Halfling Spearman

That actually came to 304 points. I originally had the Wizard to be a Human Magic user, which was 5 points less. But as he was the focus of the scenario, I thought I should bump up his toughness to warmage. Obviously, I didn't field a Halfling Spear man, using a dagger armed thief looking fellow instead, but I wanted his weak filler stats. I enjoyed the though of "mindshackled" slaves fighting for the wizard.

City army:
Human Warriors, Human Archers, Human Leader and Human Hunter.

I thought the City army had the advantage as they had so many shooters, as well, with so many animals on my war band, I could easily lose by losing too many of my non-animals. And things WERE looking bad for me, until my opponent lost half his party and the two archers abandoned the battle.

I haven't tried my hand at custom units yet, I probably will eventually, but since I only have a handful of battles played, I can get by with the provided stats.

[LilNewbie]

Cool! The book stats are fine. We are doing all of the LotR stats (using WotR as the basis) to run LotR games. And we are going through stating up all the of the DDM figures by figure type just to make it easy to recognize the figure and stats.

I've not played a true SGD game but I heard it is fun. We generally use the SGD rules and abilities in standard SBH.

If you want to try your hand at custom units, check the Ganesha yahoo group. It has some great spreadsheets to simplify creating units. Not that the custom unit creation is tough but the spreadsheets have most the abilities compiled from the SBH line.

Newb.

[A_Train]

Yeah, I had seen the spreadsheets on the yahoo group, and I like how the form automatically creates the cost of the unit based on the stats you give it.
The main reason I want to buy the expansions is for the extra "Special Abilities", more so than the Dungeon or Terrain rules provided.

Your LOTR idea sounds cool, but I don't own any of the minis myself. I bought a big bag of DDM figures from Auggies store, pretty much anything cheap I took, trying to line things up with the Stats in the book. I like yoru idea of making a stat for each DDM mini, but for myself, I like the ability to apply different stats to the same mini, should I need to.

[LilNewbie]

I understand as I tend to use a figure for multiple purposes in different SBH games.

After a few games of SBH, we were discussing DDM figures and we decided to run through the listings and create stats for each figure (yeah, we are crazy like that). We did it mainly for the monsters but started with the humanoids to jump start the conversion process. SWLion does most of the DDM coversions and I do (should be doing) most of the LotR/WotR conversions. We then discuss any changes that need to be made as a group.

Newb.

[Mossman]

"...but his resolve weakens as the wolf pulls out his entrails."

Yeah, that would do it.

Good report! Got my copy this week- hoping to try it out this weekend.

[A_Train]

I'd like to hear some of your creations for SoBH. What is the highest cost unit you have made?
I am trying to put together a major villain for scenario. He isn't a monster, just a human knight. But a particularly vile knight, known for torturing his rivals before killing them.
So what I had put together is a Human with Quality 3, Combat 3 (I debated 4, but I think that will be too much with his other abilities, if he dies too easily I'll go to four).
He will be stacked with abilities: Combat Master, Savage, Heavy Armour, Group Fighter and Terror.

I'm thinking of making him evil as well. It won't affect much as he isn't a shooter, but it means he'll kill his own retreating figures.
Instead of evil, I may make him steadfast, as I really don't want him retreating from battle.

Any comments? Have you made anything similar to this?

[LilNewbie]

Our LotR conversions are expensive as we tend to make them more in line with the heroic storyline. The cheapest unit is about 20 to 25 points and the average being around 40 to 45 points. Some of the Heroes are easily over 100 points. We just play bigger games to account for that.

I'll post some of our stats for the units later today for comparison.

Newb.

[A_Train]

I can't wait to see some.

Another question, can you recommend a figure that would look like an evil knight? Right now I am thinking of something like a GW Chaos Warrior with a great weapon, but my painting abilities won't likely live up to what I see online. Also, it would be the only figure I used that isn't DDM, which may seem weird.

Can you suggest a bad ass human figure, from the DDM line? Preferably with a helmet that masks his face.

[LilNewbie]

There is a new figure from the DDM Player's Handbook Series 2 that should work!

Male Human Paladin
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/PHH2_gallery/m_human_paladin.jpg

Auggies has it for sale as a single too:

http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/auggiesgames/Detail?no=5550

Hope that helps.

Here are some stats from Rohan:

Rider of Rohan (Bow) Q:3,C:3,Mounted,Long Move,Shooter (Medium),Points:70
Rider of Rohan (Hand Weapon) Q:3,C:3,Mounted,Long Move,Shooter (Short),Points:66
Rider of Rohan (Spear) Q:3,C:3,Mounted,Long Move,Dashing,Points:68
Warrior of Rohan (Hand Weapon) Q:3,C:3,Shooter (Short),Points:34
Warrior of Rohan (Spear) Q:3,C:3,Spear,Points:38

Here are some Isengard units:

Isengard Troll Q:4,C:4,Huge,Tough,Long Move,Heavy Armor,Points:83
Uruk-Hai Phalanx Warrior Q:4,C:4,Fearless,Heavy Armor,Lethal (Mounted),Points:47
Uruk-Hai Scouts Q:3,C:4,Fearless,Forester,Points:52
Uruk-Hai Scouts (Bow) Q:3,C:4,Fearless,Forester,Shooter (Medium),Points:60
Uruk-Hai Scouts (Spear) Q:3,C:4,Fearless,Forester,Spear,Points:60
Uruk-Hai Shaman Q:4,C:3,Fearless,Magic User,Points:50
Uruk-Hai Warrior Q:3,C:4,Fearless,Heavy Armor,Points:56

Spear is a special ability we developed to represent a fighter that is better in close combat than in shooting. A unit with Spear gets +1 when attacking or defending against an engaged unit. A model cannot have both Spear and Shooter abilities. Also a mounted figure cannot have the spear ability. We tend to give spear armed mounted units Dashing instead.

We tend to play 600 point games with a 300 point personality limit as most of our personalities are 80+ points.

I pulled the unit ideas from the War of the Ring book (GW's LotR mass combat game...great game btw!) I'm working on converting the rest of the armies from the book (Rohan, Elves, Dwarves and Isengard are finished at this time). We attempt to give the armies a decent amount of theme based on the concepts presented in the WotR book and from the actual books. Rohan has shooting on most of their units due to throwing weapons (Shooter (Short) unless they have a bow). Isengard Uruk-Hai are fearless. Dwarves have Short Move and Steadfast, Elves have a higher quality rating than other armies on the average and Pathfinder (they don't cause terror as in the WotR book since it works fine for that system but would be a bit over the top for SBH). Pathfinder is another ability we created that gives a figure the ability to ignore all land-based terrain movement penalties.

Of course, we are still playtesting and making tweaks as we play. Our goal is not to powergame but to represent the Middle Earth forces as we see them on screen, in the rulebooks and in the source material. We have been having a blast with them and are pleased with the conversion so far. We also keep the LotR forces separate from the standard forces in the rulebooks but I think it would be a fun game mixing the two universes together as the LotR forces would be easily outnumbered in the game and that is not a good thing in SBH (as it should be).

Our conversion of the DDM figure line seems to be more on par with the standard forces listed in the SBH books and that is coming along great too.

Newb.

[A_Train]

Thanks for the Unit suggestion. Ironically, I just received an order from Auggies store yesterday (Mostly grabbed an army worth of Orcs, as he had an influx of them. Along with a handful of human warriors, elf archers and anything that caught my eye and was 50 cents or less).

I like the look of your LOTR armies. The Isengard forces look truly intimidating. I like your created powers, especially Spear.
I'd love to see a few in game pics next time you guys play.

Do you often use the "heroes' of LOTR, fromt he fellowship in your games, or just the armies?


I'd like to hear of a few of the stats you came up with for DDM figs as well if you want to share. Some of the DDM are too unique looking to simply be cast as "Human Warrior".
One of my favorites that I received yesterday is the Emerald Claw Solider:
http://gamerocket.net/images/AB30_Emerald_Claw_Soldier.jpg

I'm a sucker for the generic fighters that use anything other than the standard sword. Have you made stats for this guy yet?

[LilNewbie]

I will definitely share the conversions.

Isengard is a tough army and should be. We have created about 8 new abilities to help in converting units over to the game.

We have used "named" characters in our games but don't always. Sometimes a generic leader is fun to use. I've used Lurtz once or twice and my friends have used Rohan characters before. Lurtz is expensive (and worth it) but sometimes I want to run a Troll and a generic leader will allow the points to work out so the Troll can be included. I'll take some pictures next time we play.

SBH is a great system to build on and is very easy to customize. My friend, Leo, is working on the DDM conversion and the plan is to have each miniature have a statline so you can pick a miniature and have it ready for play without having to use a generic stat line. He tries to tie the SBH stats to the DDM stats so the figure retains the "feel" of how it plays in DDM. It's a daunting task but he has finished most of the humanoids and is now working on the monster line. PM me your email addy and I'll gladly send you a copy of the conversions so far.

Here is the stats for the Emerald Claw Warrior:

Emerald Claw Soldier Q:4,C:2,Evil,Points:15

Of course, we don't always stick to using DDM figures with the conversion stats...sometimes we just use the SBH stats and play with whatever figure suits the idea of the statline.

The possibilities are almost endless in SBH and that is one of the great things about the game.

Newb.

[A_Train]

I posted this over on the new SoBaH forums, but I figured I'd repost here, as I like this thread to stay active.


Backstory:
A Nomadic Orc Tribe had wreaked havoc in an Elven community. The traveling band caught the Elves off guard, and slaughtered many of the cities inhabitants. The orcs had fled by the time and Elven hero had returned to the city. The hero gathered up a group of surivors to hunt down the attackers of the city.

The warbands:


Elves: Elf Commander, 3 Elf Archers and 1 Elf Dasher (Q:3, C3 elf with Dashing ability)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0697.jpg

Orcs: Orc Tribe Leader (Q3, C4, Leader/Magic User), 4 Orc Warriors, 2 Savage Orc Warriors and 2 Savage Orc Heavy Infantry
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0699.jpg


The Elf archers single out a lone Orc Warrior, and riddle his body with arrows.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0701.jpg


The dashing elf runs into battle, but cannot strike down the Heavily Armoured Orc. Another warrior enters the fray, and the numbers are too much for the elf, who is slain.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0702.jpg


An elf Archer knocks down the Orc Tribe leader, but is then over run by Orcs and killed.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0703.jpg

With the Orc Leader already fallen, the Elf Hero steps forward, decapitating him, gruesomely killing him.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0704.jpg

Witnessing the gruesome kill, along with losing the leader of their tribe causes half of the orc gang to retreat. Seeing their numbers dwindle, causes the rest to join the flight.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/DSCF0705.jpg

The orcs have retreated, and without their leader, will be little threat to the elves in the future.


Wow, an army of elves is a tough thing to beat. Their virtually certain quality rolls, along with the range against the orcs shaky quality and no range except their leader made this a no contest.
The chain reaction of morale fails sealed the deal here.

I have another report with my friend and I switching armies that I'll post later. Can I do any better controlling the Elves, or will my opponent do better with the great numbers of the Orcs.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Man, you guys are really making me want this game with all of your battle reports. My wife says you have to stop making these battle reports for the sake of my marriage. :lol:

[A_Train]

I think you would not be disappointed. And your wife could hardly be upset over you paying the cost of $5 or so.
If you have many other miniatures you won't even have to foot the bill of those either. You can play with HS figures, but myself, I prefer not to. I already view the HS figures in a certain light, that giving them new stats for SoBaH bothers me. I paid about $25 at auggies store for a huge bag of DnD miniatures that I use, and its done great for me so far.

I just sent in a purchase for Andreas latest release, Flying Lead, which uses a similar ruleset for modern combat, focusing more on ranged weapons. I hope to have a battle report of that up next week or so (granted, it will likely be with Airborne Elite, vs Repainted Airborne Elite).

[Mossman]

It's been well worth the $ I spent. Simple, fun, and lets me play lots of figures for which I've not found a use.

[LilNewbie]

Great report, A_Train! The SBH game family is fantastic. Just picked up Flying Lead and I'm really impressed with how they use the base system with a few adds to weapons to make a great modern/post-modern game!

Just finished the LotR conversion work this weekend and really like how easy it is to customize the system to make any genre and/or setting playable.

Newb.

[LilNewbie]

Posted a new battle report on Ganesha's boards:

http://ganeshagames.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=battlereports&action=display&thread=126

Newb.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

OK, I finally broke down and got this. Of course than I had to order some minis too. I'm pretty pumped to try this out, hopefully this weekend.

[A_Train]

Take some pics, and report on your first experience!

[LilNewbie]

Take some pics, and report on your first experience!

/sign!

Welcome to SBH. It's a great game!

Newb.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

I got in my first game and other than having to look up the rules a bunch I really enjoyed it. I didn't get a chance to take any pics. The camera needed to be charged.

War party one -
Halfling Thief, Elf Wizard, Human Warrior, Human Cleric, Human Light Infantry, and Dwarf Commander

against

Human Skeleton x 2, Human Assassin, Orc Warrior x 2, Orc Champion, and Small Dragon.

The lay-out was a small pond in the center with a ruined castle on one side and a dense forest on the other.

The races decided to combine to investigate the disturbances in the old abandoned castle. They made their way towards the castle, when they saw another war party of various monsters lead by a dark human.

The Dwarf commander rushed in laying waste to the Orc Champion. The Human Cleric stepped up and banished a skeleton as well.

Things were looking bleak for the monster war party until the Dragon defeated the Dwarf commander and the other war party dispersed. In fact the Elf wizard fled in terror. The monster war party killed the light infantry and the human warrior fled after that. The halfling thief was all that was left and in an amazing turn of events killed the dragon. The human assassin was able to defeat the thief though in the end!

Man, this game was fun. I'm looking forward to getting many more plays out of it.

[A_Train]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for the little report.
There is a lot of fun to be had in this system.

[LilNewbie]

Thanks for the report, Matthias Maccabeus!! After another game or too, you won't need to reference to book that much except if you come across an ability that is not used very often. The rules are simple and the game play is very fluid. One of the best light skirmish games I've played.

Newb.

[Melwing17]

Things are bleh lately, but I just thought I'd hop on and share this shot (I actually got to play a game! *gasp*). I saw them at the Dollar Tree a few months ago and finally got a chance to break them out. <grin>

http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs460.snc3/26296_1394663595920_1512099390_30986894_4656814_n.jpg

[Typhon2222]

Sorry for extreme necro posting here.... But figured better to revive this thread than create yet another new one.

I just bought SBH! One of the main attractions was the possibility of using my 'Scape figures, and my 'Scape terrain, to play the game.

Which is why I'm kinda surprised to see from this thread that most of you are playing with figures from other games, and are emphatically not playing on hexes. It's the latter I wonder about the most: are there problems with playing it on hexes?

Along those lines.... The rules say to count 4/7/13 hexes for short/medium/long distance. But in this post (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=734528#post734528), MrBistro says he likes to play using 3/5/9, at the suggestion of the game designer. Am curious to know more about this. What distances do you guys use?

[Snappleman]

How random, I've been looking at SBH for a couple days now and just stumbled upon this thread. I'm probably going to buy SBH, but I'm really interested in the Power Legion expansion/game that the SBH creator is working on for all my clix figures. I love C3G, don't get me wrong, but I like to mix it up. I can't believe how many people have so many positive things to say for this system. I will absolutely be playing on my HS hexes.

[A_Train]

My #1 reason for not using HS figures and hexes is that it feels too much like Heroscape if I do that. I already have a quick association of abilities and strengths of HS units, that would make it feel weird to see them in any other light. Plus I just like having more minis.

I've never played on hexes so I can't answer your other question.

[Typhon2222]

My #1 reason for not using HS figures and hexes is that it feels too much like Heroscape if I do that. I already have a quick association of abilities and strengths of HS units, that would make it feel weird to see them in any other light. Plus I just like having more minis.

I've never played on hexes so I can't answer your other question.

Huh. I've read the rules for SBH several times now, and am wondering how/if to translate them onto 'Scape tiles, if I will.

Looking over the various (awesome, by the way!) pics posted in this thread of battlegrounds, I see that none seem to have any elevated ground. Is that common?

I see from the rules that ranged attacks get no benefit from height, so shooters have no reason to seize it. :shock:

[A_Train]

I think the pic in your signature is out of control.


As for elevation, you are thinking too much of Scape rules.
Shooters are already quite strong, and giving them a height advantage is not really necessary. As you can see in this thread, I've never really used height, but I would if I had the terrain for it. It would still be a location that gets you further away from melee fighters.


If you wanted, you could houserule a height advantage benefit, and just make it similar to a 'focused' range attack or something.

[Typhon2222]

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/Eh_Train/SoBaH/DSCF0279.jpg
.
.
.
Beautiful rich green textured battlefield here, A_Train. Makes everything on it seem to sparkle. What exactly is it? <drool>

[Typhon2222]

I think the pic in your signature is out of control.Heh, if that's a bad thing (too big) rather than a good, let me know.


As for elevation, you are thinking too much of Scape rules.
Shooters are already quite strong, and giving them a height advantage is not really necessary. As you can see in this thread, I've never really used height, but I would if I had the terrain for it. It would still be a location that gets you further away from melee fighters.Ah, I see. I guess I don't have enough experience with raised terrain features in non-'Scape minis games to even know how they function. I'm guessing their incline is usually pretty low, so figures can easily sit on the incline itself without falling over?

[A_Train]

Maybe the issue with your signature was on my end, it loads find now, but before it was very huge, and not completely loading earlier.


As for the terrain, many people will use gentle slopes, but there are also hard edged hills as well. (Something like this.) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VFkbAjJ9_LI/THOjRN-9LfI/AAAAAAAADxk/1k3Y1iKUQYc/s1600/Cavern+Table+-+Hill+1.JPG) Of course in other games it is common to have buildings and bridges that make up a lot of the elevation. One thing to consider however, in non scape games, it can be difficult to measure who is actually higher, since their terrain is not universally the same, so maybe that is why it doesn't come into effect in Song of Blades and Heroes.

I'm not sure how elevation comes into effect in Warhammer, but maybe you could steal a rule from there.

[Typhon2222]

Maybe the issue with your signature was on my end, it loads find now, but before it was very huge, and not completely loading earlier.Thanks for letting me know. It should be taken care of now. :oops:

As for the terrain, many people will use gentle slopes, but there are also hard edged hills as well. (Something like this.) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VFkbAjJ9_LI/THOjRN-9LfI/AAAAAAAADxk/1k3Y1iKUQYc/s1600/Cavern+Table+-+Hill+1.JPG) Of course in other games it is common to have buildings and bridges that make up a lot of the elevation. One thing to consider however, in non scape games, it can be difficult to measure who is actually higher, since their terrain is not universally the same, so maybe that is why it doesn't come into effect in Song of Blades and Heroes.Interesting....

I guess 'Scape is pretty unrepresentative of most other mini games eh? Clearly I don't have enough familiarity. :D

Just to check that I understand.... In Song of Blades and Heroes, height comes into play, but only for melee, is that right?

[A_Train]

Yes, I think it does. And if you wanted to use it for ranged attacks too, that would probably be fine.

But I never actually used the elevated bonus, as most of my play was flat.

[Typhon2222]

Yes, I think it does. And if you wanted to use it for ranged attacks too, that would probably be fine.

But I never actually used the elevated bonus, as most of my play was flat. Gotcha. :lol:

So.... what IS that green battlemat in your shots? :D

[A_Train]

Just a green section of patterned material that I bought at Walmart for a few dollars. Its not felt, as it is actually quite a bit thinner. I didn't like it at first, but it really looks like it fits the part of grass in these pictures.

[screwDriver]

Just bought this game and played a short skirmish to familiarize with the rules. I just had some questions...

1. Let's say a figure throws 3 dice and all success, this means this figure can take 3 actions. Does that mean the figure can make 3 normal attacks? Or do a 2 action attack (power attack or Aimed Shot) plus a normal attack?

2. On page 8,
No Shooting In or Out of Hand to Hand Combat
Neither the target nor the shooter may be engaged in hand to hand combat (you can’t shoot if someone is hitting you in hand to hand, and...

Correct me if I'm wrong, this means you need to attacked the engaged figure first before you can shoot at other (un-engaged) opponents.

3. Do Combat Modifiers stack? Like say a Mounted Huge figure standing elevated terrain attacking a normal size figure on a lower terrain, does the attacker get a +3 (Mounted + Size + Elevation)?

Thanks.

[Typhon2222]

Just bought this game and played a short skirmish to familiarize with the rules. I just had some questions...Nice! After some time posting questions about the rules on the SBH Yahoo group, and getting good replies, I just played my very first game of SBH last night!

1. Let's say a figure throws 3 dice and all success, this means this figure can take 3 actions. Does that mean the figure can make 3 normal attacks? Or do a 2 action attack (power attack or Aimed Shot) plus a normal attack?A model can only attack once per turn, regardless of how many actions it has. So you would probably want to spend two actions to make a power attack/aimed shot.


2. On page 8,
No Shooting In or Out of Hand to Hand Combat
Neither the target nor the shooter may be engaged in hand to hand combat (you can’t shoot if someone is hitting you in hand to hand, and...

Correct me if I'm wrong, this means you need to attacked the engaged figure first before you can shoot at other (un-engaged) opponents.Yes. If a shooter is engaged in HTH combat, it cannot use a ranged attack. I.e., if he attacks, his only option is to attack the/a figure with which he is engaged. The exception is if his engaged opponent is Fallen; in that case, the shooter can use a ranged attack against some other figure. :twisted:

3. Do Combat Modifiers stack? Like say a Mounted Huge figure standing elevated terrain attacking a normal size figure on a lower terrain, does the attacker get a +3 (Mounted + Size + Elevation)?Absolutely yes. :up:

[screwDriver]

Cool! Thanks Typhon.

[A_Train]

Just a note, though you probably realize this, models can attack more than once if they have the appropriate special ability, which is Combat Fiend I believe.

[Typhon2222]

Just a note, though you probably realize this, models can attack more than once if they have the appropriate special ability, which is Combat Fiend I believe.Nice point, A_Train. That ability comes from.... Song of Wind and Water?

I only have SBH and the first expansion, Song of Gold and Darkness, so haven't actually encountered that ability yet. :p

[screwDriver]

I still haven't got any expansions yet... am burning cash getting those WoW Minis. Which is gonna be dual purpose as I'm thinking of getting one of those cheap WoW Minis Starting Set.

[A_Train]

Whoops, my bad. I have most of the expansions so I sometimes forget which abilities came from which book. To be honest, I've only ever played the base SBH, I just picked up the other books for the additional abilities.

And the ability was called Combat Master, Combat Fiend is the same ability in the modern ruleset, Flying Lead, which I also own, yet have not played yet.

[Typhon2222]

Whoops, my bad. I have most of the expansions so I sometimes forget which abilities came from which book. To be honest, I've only ever played the base SBH, I just picked up the other books for the additional abilities.I'll probably do the same. :p

I'm only wondering what to do with figures on peanut bases. I'm using mostly 'Scape minis to play SBH. And while the single-hex figures work perfectly, I don't know whether we need to introduce special rules or not for the double-hexers, since their bases aren't evenly round or square. The SBH rules don't demand that bases be that way, but it seems to be assumed....

[A_Train]

I actually thought the rules suggested that if you use square bases, all bases should be square, same for circular.

I'm not sure what I'd do for a peanut base, perhaps cut out an appropriate sized circle from cardstock and put it beneath the unit to cover the area that a full base should take?

[Typhon2222]

I'm not sure what I'd do for a peanut base, perhaps cut out an appropriate sized circle from cardstock and put it beneath the unit to cover the area that a full base should take?Oh that's a good idea...

I posted the same question over in the SBH Yahoo group. A nice reply suggested that I treat them as being on standard 2x1 rectangular 'cavalry' bases, i.e., pretend they have straight lines along the sides. I had forgotten such things existed. Clearly I don't have much exposure to square-based figures. :lol:

[screwDriver]

Quick question about square/rectangular base to base engagement. I know engagement means the side to side of the square bases, what about if corner to corner?

[Typhon2222]

My understanding is that if bases touch in any way, the models are considered engaged and in hand-to-hand combat. :up:

[Typhon2222]

Have played three games now of Song of Blades and Heroes, and let me say, I love this game.

Not sure that it will ever replace 'Scape for me. But man, so far it comes close in terms of enjoyment. Can use all my 'Scape minis, and 'Scape terrain. And makes it very very easy to create new units. One of its major attractions, in fact, is that it comes with an algorithm which automatically computes unit cost. Just input your new unit's stats, its special abilities, and voila: the algorithm gives you the point cost for the unit.

And so far, we're finding the game mechanics a refreshing change of pace. The freedom of movement is fun. The deadliness of massed melee combat is fun. The fact that ranged units don't seem generally overpowered is fun.

All in all: fun.

[A_Train]

The ability to create new units so easily was a huge selling point for SBH for me. I have never been able to use customs in Scape because I just was never certain that they were point costed well enough or playtested enough (these sort of things have changed since the line was ended). But with SBH creating characters is so easy. Much more fun when you get all the abilities of the other books too.

[LilNewbie]

SBH is a great game!!

We modified the turn sequence to allow for alternating figure activations and the game is even better.

We recently played a Star Wars game using the Flying Lead rules (modern combat rules using the SBH engine) with our alternating activations and had a great time.

Newb.

[A_Train]

I sadly have not played Flying Lead yet, but I'm getting so much closer, heh.

[Typhon2222]

The ability to create new units so easily was a huge selling point for SBH for me. I have never been able to use customs in Scape because I just was never certain that they were point costed well enough or playtested enough (these sort of things have changed since the line was ended). But with SBH creating characters is so easy. Much more fun when you get all the abilities of the other books too.
So true. And without squads to monopolize things, it's easier to put together warbands which use a greater number of different sculpts, while still preserving thematic cohesion.

Good example below. My main gaming buddy, Sertorius, likes demonic characters. So we just put together a SBH warband of them. (They're all originally D&D minis, rebased here on my own stickers so we can use them in 'Scape too.)

http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//demons_rebased%20(1)_719.jpg

[Typhon2222]

Here is a template I just uploaded (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3583). Use to make SBH (Song of Blades and Heroes) cards for all your Heroscape and other minis.

Easy to use: simply enter stats. If you have images, just drag-and-drop them in.

Cards are sized to fit in standard card sleeves (both American- and European-sized).

[screwDriver]

Loved the SBH card template Typhon222.

My WoW Minis package arrived yesterday and I had some fun with them in SBH. The figures were great. 40mm, most are robust and sturdy, so I don't need to be extra careful when handling them. They come with a uniform size round bases. Great poses and great sculpts, they would have been perfect if the not for the mediocre paint jobs. Had to increase the lengths of the 3 sticks to compensate the size difference though.

I've done 3 battles for my war band campaign. Well actually it was more like 6 but had to disregard all the Victory and Experience points earned by the first 3 due playing certain rules wrong. Like, I kept forgetting Big models always have +1 Combat when attacking Small and Medium models. I forgot Morale checks when war band was reduced to half. And a few more. And in the course of the games, I run into some stuff that I'm unsure of. Hopefully, someone can help me with these...

1. When a model attacks a fallen model and looses (not killed or gruesome death), does the attacking model takes a fall or recoil also? I actually had around 3-4 models of 2 opposing teams engaged to each other while lying on their backs.

2. A continuation of the fallen models, let's say I had a 2-FallenFriendly vs 1-StandingBaddie scenario, a third-Friendly model comes in to attack the 1-StandingBaddie. Does the 1-StandingBaddie gets a -2Combat due to engagement with 2 fallen models?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
My WoW Minis War Bands, I just used their WoW names to save me the trouble.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/tripleDot/friendlies.jpg
My War Band with 45 Victory Points (start at upper left going clock-wise):
Elanna (XP 3) - Elf Hero (93) Q2+ C3, Hero, Shooter (L)
Delyn (XP 2) - Elf Sneak (53) Q2+ C3, Stealth, Forester
Umbrage (XP 1) - Elf Warrior (38 ) Q2+ C3
Savin (XP 3) - Dwarf Orc Slayer (40) Q3+ C4, Short Move, Lethal vs Orcs
Magdeline (XP 3) - Human Warrior (30) Q3+ C3
Graccus (XP 3) - Human Warrior (30) Q3+ C3
--------------------
Total Points: 284

Questions:
1. Can I just replace a model? Due to Short Move, Savin is most of the time left at the back, I'd like to boot him out for someone faster.

2. I have enough VP to buy a Personality model, can I just do that or am I still restricted to the 1/3 point personality-regular ratio? I wanted to upgrade Graccus to Human Leader (60), and perhaps later on, Magdeline to Human Cleric.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/tripleDot/baddies.jpg
Baddies War Band (start at upper left going clock-wise):
Zomm - Orc Warrior (23) Q4+ C3
Radak - Orc Shaman (38 ) Q4+ C2, Magic-user
Azarak - Orc Warrior (23) Q4+ C3
Drokkar - Orc Savage Champion (76) Q3+ C4, Savage, Hero
Amalar - Minotaur Skirmisher (62) Q3+ C3, Big, Savage, Long Move
Bog - Earth Elemental (82) Q3+ C4, Big, Artificial, Tough
--------------------
Total Points: 304

I know, the Personality is more than 1/3 ration but these guys still got pawned 3 out of 3 games. Except for Drokkar, the other 3 Orcs where pretty useless due to their Q4+, they've been unlucky with their activation and mostly away from the fight until too late. I might have to upgrade the Orc line-ups. And maybe throw in a few more Big baddies. Or maybe just have the Big Baddies wait up for Orc support. Hehehe.

[LilNewbie]

Loved the SBH card template Typhon222.

...

I forgot Morale checks when war band was reduced to half. And a few more. And in the course of the games, I run into some stuff that I'm unsure of. Hopefully, someone can help me with these...

1. When a model attacks a fallen model and looses (not killed or gruesome death), does the attacking model takes a fall or recoil also? I actually had around 3-4 models of 2 opposing teams engaged to each other while lying on their backs.

2. A continuation of the fallen models, let's say I had a 2-FallenFriendly vs 1-StandingBaddie scenario, a third-Friendly model comes in to attack the 1-StandingBaddie. Does the 1-StandingBaddie gets a -2Combat due to engagement with 2 fallen models?

...

I know, the Personality is more than 1/3 ration but these guys still got pawned 3 out of 3 games. Except for Drokkar, the other 3 Orcs where pretty useless due to their Q4+, they've been unlucky with their activation and mostly away from the fight until too late. I might have to upgrade the Orc line-ups. And maybe throw in a few more Big baddies. Or maybe just have the Big Baddies wait up for Orc support. Hehehe.

Answers to your questions (seen these asked before on the Yahoo list and the answers are paraphrased from the Author):

1. Combat with a fallen model is resolved as normal except that the fallen model is quick killed if it loses combat (and gruesome killed on double the combat value or higher). So a fallen model can still win the combat and the loser is affected just like normal (odd-pushed back, even-fallen).

2. Fallen models still contribute to combat modifiers for extra opponents. Think of fallen as not really on the ground but the model is off balance, lost their grip on a weapon, gimped leg, etc. So they can still threaten an opponent.

We use the personality limit as a guideline instead of a hard and fast rule. We try to base our games on a story/scenario and sometimes we go over the limit to fit that specific story/scenario.

Hope that helps. Not sure about the campaign rules but I'm sure you can just boot a character and pick up another one worth same point value. You could also just drop Short Move and give him Long Move and Slow (can only move once per activation) instead to help with the speed issue.

BTW, I like the use of the WoW minis for SBH. Did you rebase them or leave them on their original bases?

Newb.

[screwDriver]

Thanks LilNewbie, those were helpful. I especially love the Slow-Long Move special in lieu of the Short Move. That allows a lot of room for those short folk figures that I have (WoW dwarves and gnomes).

BTW, I like the use of the WoW minis for SBH. Did you rebase them or leave them on their original bases?

I got these figures intentionally for a 2 game purpose, the WoW Miniature game and SBH. So I'm using them with their original bases.

[LilNewbie]

We've developed an alternating activations version of SBH and really like it over the UGIGO activations of the original system. One or two abilities were modified to account for the changes and group activations were mostly removed from the game (but aren't really needed with individual activations) and we modified the combined shooting rules to replace the combined shooting order.

We also added a new feature of Leaders where they can store one die they rolled for activations and use it to replace another figure's die during their activations rolls (that figure has to be under the affect of that leader to get the replaced die).

We really enjoy the changes and feel it made a great game even better.

Newb.