View Full Version : Villain point totals problem
August 17th, 2008, 03:16 PM
As I get further into playing Marvelscape with some of the wonderful custom creations on this site, the biggest problem I see is in the point total/strength of the villains.
Specifically, if you want to play with an X-Men or FF or Avengers type team, there is simply nobody for them to contest since the villains just aren't powerful enough.
Now, this works ok if you take a villainous team like the Master of Evil or the Brotherhood, but there is no villain that comes close to being able to stand up against a strong team.
For example, I have a moderately powered Avengers team (no Thor, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, etc.) and even they would utterly destroy any Ultron that has been created.
Or, how do you have the FF take on Doc Doom, when Doc is only priced/powered at about 220 points?
Again, I realize that this came about due to how Hasbro initially costed the initial figures so that there could be head to head matchups, but really, shouldn't the ulitmate villians like Ultron or Doc Doom or Magneto really be powered closer to 1000 points, at least if you want to be true to the Marvel Universe?
Ultron has stood toe to toe with teams of Avengers, including the heavy hitters, but this cannont be reflected in the game. Remember ,the Avengers were formed to take on villains that no single hero could withstand.
Any ideas? My guess is that the only real solution would be to scrap the Hasbro cards and completely start over (should Cap America or Spidey, relatively low powered Marvel characters really be worth 200 points?), but that isn't a task that I really desire to do.
August 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
First of all, there is a realish world aspect to this that Marvelscape can never reproduce. They want people to actually use both Heroscape and Marvelscape, which means that the villians will be a bit like that
Secondly, there is a lot of luck in life...
Thirdly, there is going to be the fact that there is no die, there is no stats there is no range, its alive, dead, or injured.
Fourthly, there is skill for the people that is hard to represent in Marvelscape
Lastly, they were made in the comic books so that they seemed to be challenged by the villian
There is one moderate way to fix it, but that would mean squads in Marvelscape...
And welcome to the site!
August 19th, 2008, 06:45 AM
I think a lot of the Villain's power comes from thier initiative or surprising engagement of the heroes. They know what's going on, have it all planned out, but the heroes have just been sitting around waiting for it to happen.
If you got to choose exactly when and where you could plop Thanos down on a map, I'm sure he'd do a lot more than his 360 points worth of damage because he'd have the tactical advantage.
Just some thoughts (to a very good question)...
August 19th, 2008, 03:26 PM
That is true, and I realize that you can set up scenarios where some of that point total is offset by game conditions.
However, I still think that the major villains should be stronger (Kang, Magneto, Ultron, Doom, etc.)
As I think I noted, I played a scenaio where a "weak" Avengers team took on the Wrecking Crew (lead by Doom), and it was just off that Doom was one of the first to get knocked out (lower point total than the customs that I had for guys like Piledriver).
Just maybe something for our customizers to keep in mind when working with villains that are arch-enemies of the X-Men, FF, Avengers, etc.
I shudder to think what it would take to come up with a villain that could match The Defenders (Hulk, Surfer, Strange, Namor, Moondragon, etc.)
August 19th, 2008, 03:32 PM
As I was typing this post, I was thinking of a way around this...maybe some sort of "Condition" card having to do with ethics that could limit the power of the heroes?
The fact that heroes typically have more ethical boundaries (not break laws, don't kill, will save others at their own expense, etc.) could be incorporated into these kind of scenarios.
Maybe a reduction of attack dice (since they are more likely to "hold back" so as to not kill or generally have mercy)?
Maybe a game condition where the loss of any team member would have severe consequences (an additional loss of another hero) since they would be unwilling to sacrifice a team member?
Maybe some sort of regeneration card for villians, who would be able to come back into the game due to the ethics of the heroes?
Any ideas would be helpful.
August 19th, 2008, 03:34 PM
The bottom line is that the power-levels of these characters are not consistent in the comics, so there is no way it can be translated accurately to Heroscape, or to anything else. There are comics where Iron Man takes on Dr. Doom one-on-one, and in others it takes all of the FF4 to stop him. Sometimes Hulk fights The Thing alone, or Thor alone, and other times it takes the whole Avengers to stop him.
The only way around it that I can think of is through house rules that modify characters by scaling them up when necessary for a specific game or scenario. If you want Magneto to take on all the X-Men alone, you could require 2 wounds to inflict 1 wound of damage against him, for example. Or use a 3:1 ratio, or whatever seems appropriate for the opposing team. Another way is to simply double or triple the Life, as needed. But to maintain compatibility with existing customs and official figures, I wouldn't support actually changing the custom cards.
August 19th, 2008, 04:32 PM
A valid point. Maybe an additional version of a particular card could be made for some of them, much how there are different version of Drake or whomever.
It might be worth a thought to make a "Kang, Ulimate Villain" or "Magneto, X-Men Nemesis" or something, costed at 600 points for use in specific scenarios. There could be a stipulation that this villain can only be used by itself or only when facing an Avengers/X-men squad or something like that.
August 22nd, 2008, 01:56 PM
First off, I agree with you till you said to scrap off what Hasbro made.
But yeah, in making customs, we should perhaps make villains unpuny or at least marginally equal. Not in a figure to figure sense, but perhaps team to team.
August 22nd, 2008, 09:23 PM
It depends on what your goal is. It is pretty apparent that in designing the Marvelscape game, they really weren't all that concerned with an authentic Marvel world IMO. They wanted a game where characters would match up very evenly with each other in a small skirmish. That is why Spidey-Venom, Hulk-Abomination, IM-Doom, etc. are all so evenly matched.
There is nothing wrong with that and I think the game works well.
If you are more interested in a more accurate Marvel world, I don't know that the Hasbro created characters work all that well.
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