Slaying Nilfheim

[Pilgrim]

Okay, I've played two games against Nilfheim and he's proved lethal in both. I managed to kill him off eventually in both games, but not after significant losses. In the second game he ultimately cost me the game.

This dragon is truly stout. His is ranged flyer with move 6, which makes his mobility insane - he can stick and move all day against non-flyers. And unlike the great glass-jawed Mimring, he has one extra life and defense 4, which makes him more sturdy. Also, his ice-shard special attack is more flexible than Mim's, and it can be aimed at anyone, unlike Braxas' breath weapon. The 185pts is fitting, if not conservative.

Strategies I'm toying with/have attempted:

1. Identify an anti-hero to Nilfheim. Ideas include Mimring (firing at long-distance, using mobility), Q-9 (again, long range), dead-eye Dan (though just a one-shot, 10% chance with the Ullar rifle, and then I figure the dragon is on him), Sudema (though like Dan she gets once chance and then's Dragon snack). Any others that stand out?

2. Swarm with range: AE, Kravs, marros. But again, with his mobility and defense, he's so tough to bring down. And you're forced to keep your range spread out, lest he attack multiple targets with ice shard breath.

Any other ideas? I'm particularly interested in ideas that have been play-tested.

[hex706f726368]

I too have enjoyed nilfheim's effectiveness in battle. I think he may be my favorite dragon of the whole set. I think you should add Sir Denrick to your list. I've had Denrick mow down my Charos and I'm sure he'd be just as effective vs nilfheim.

[Grungebob]

I too have enjoyed nilfheim's effectiveness in battle. I think he may be my favorite dragon of the whole set. I think you should add Sir Denrick to your list. I've had Denrick mow down my Charos and I'm sure he'd be just as effective vs nilfheim.He puts the hurt on Braxas too.

[truth]

He does have killer mobility but can have some troubles landing next to sheer surfaces on one side. His mass and wings many times give him a difficulty landing.

As far as killing the beast, there is always the dragonslayer :twisted:

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/targon.jpg

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Tundra.jpg

[Grungebob]

He does have killer mobility but can have some troubles landing next to sheer surfaces on one side. His mass and wings many times give him a difficulty landing.

As far as killing the beast, there is always the dragonslayer :twisted:

Love this guy!!

[Pilgrim]

Yet one more proof that we need a wave ENTIRELY composed of dwarves.

Good point truth - his mobility is slightly hampered by his awkward shape.

Denrick is a good call too . . . presuming he can get close! Therein lies the rub.

[ultradoug]

He does have killer mobility but can have some troubles landing next to sheer surfaces on one side. His mass and wings many times give him a difficulty landing.

As far as killing the beast, there is always the dragonslayer :twisted:

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/targon.jpg

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Tundra.jpg

I have that guy.

[K/H_Addict]

DAMN YOU GUYS! QUIT TAUNTING ME WITH THE NEW DRAGONS! i'm gonna CRY!



what about me burq sa? or negoksa?

[Jason]

The Krav, AE, Snipers, and Krug match up well against Nilfheim. The Snipers and AE have great attack power and their range exceeds his movements. Krug we all know about and has a fantastic attack power. The Krav have that crazy defense. Charros matches up well too. Sudema is interesting since she has the 20% chance to auto kill and can only be attacked 1 time per round by Nilf

[spacemonkeymafia]

Me Burq Sa wouldn't work with his stare and his mobility and atk just doesn't seem high enough, bonding him with romans as they swarm Nilf (2 sets of romans and 1 Me Burq Sa = 150 pts < Nilf's pts cost) but mobility is still the main issue.

Syv hyped with Finn is still 160 pts<185 pts. Sending in finn, assuming you could catch Nilf to attack, could wear him down. Of course you could use Finn to corral Milf, oops, Nilf to Syv on favorable ground.

Su Bak Na has great attack and flying mobility so he could, in theory, base Nilf and pound on him for a while. Krug would be a good bet except his move could hamper him same with Jotun.

I remember reading about having the Hounds base Braxas while you pound her from range and I would bet that the same could go for Nilf.

And of course there is my Fave of the hour- Morsbane. 25% negation, 5% auto kill, ranged and 6 life so he lasts longer than Sudema. Once Nilf is negated use range, he should go down or be a moot point by that time anyway. Saylind can help with mobility still keeping < 185 pts. Or Theracus (the sleeper in this set- to some at least) for well < 185 pts.

Of course alot of that takes time and assumes Nilf is your only objective (which, if he's on the board, might well be)

[spacemonkeymafia]

Sudema's crux is low life and 3 def will not stand to the Nilf king's 6 atk long.

I started thinking about what Hex573752789720768920 said about Denrick, and though getting close is going to be tough, denrick bonded with knights is a great theoretical Nilf Bane. Denrick runs out to eventually base Nilf and then his boyz come in to help out. Whats that cost $1.70 to Nilfs $1.85? that can help the problem of using multiple markers to take on one unit (bonding kicks ass).

I think the real key is basing Nilf with a unit that will really force the player to not want to just side step and shard again. Denrick and knights are excellent choices, they won't last long basing but I'd take one 6 atk vs. three 4 ranged atk anyday.

[Jason]

Sudema will often get 2-3 shots in on Nilfheim before going down, especially if she makes the 1st attack

[Agent Minivann]

I just played Denrick bonded to the McDirks (only commons I have with bonding, but no Allistair). Not against the new dragons, but I had him go toe to toe with Charos. I think I ended up taking him down to 1 life before Denrick bought the farm. My Microcorp Agents did a fine job mopping up after the bloodletting. I have to agree that Denrick is a great option. Come to think of it, I think he took out Mimring in the same game. Wait, Denrick did kill Charos, it was Krug that did him in, but Denrick took him to one life. Krug's killing blow was not pretty, but he couldn't come anywhere near my Agents after that.

[SyvarrisX]

I really want to get those new figures. When I do and play with them I will probbly contribute a bit more here.

[Double Oak]

Putting a McDirk warrior on the range glyph was all my Krav Magna's needed to take Nilf down. Without the glyph it is definitely more challenging thougs :)

[Agent Minivann]

Double Oak, great sig. I would add never undersetimate a smart 9 year old with 3 order markers on Syvarris. That's all it has taken for my son to wipe me off the map on occaission.

[Double Oak]

Thanks! The sig came after a massive game where he had 2000 pts and I had an 1800 pt army. I was creaming him and got lax, put my agents in harms way and lost them. He had little else except his agents but great position with height and slowly but surely turned the tide of battle, picking my guys off one by one and ended up beating me handily.

He STILL grins about that game!

[Pilgrim]

I played Legolas against Nilfheim only to watch the dragon charge and turn him into an elf-slurpee.

LIke Jason said, Krug is a great choice. I used him in the second game against Frosty the SnowWyrm. He works fine so long as there is an open, flat plain that Nilfheim has to land on to shoot Krug. That way Krug can move 5 and then start his little ice sculpture. If the dragon has height that Krug must climb to get to him, forget about it Krug.

[feekonea]

I have not yet played with "the nif" but I think denrick and his knights are the best choice. They specialize in killing huge figs.

[Rÿchean]

The biggest things that the knights bring is their coward's reward and that they bond with Sir Denrick, who also has coward's reward and the plus 2 to attack versus huge.

They all also have a base of 4 defense. The knights move is slow but Nilf's special range is 5 so move 4 on flat land would close on range 5 attack.

Coward's reward puts the mighty Nilf in the bad spot of maybe taking two hits from one figure by disengaging. If you manage to get at least two of these figures engaged with Nifl, the opponent probably isn't going to disengage him to get the special.

Of course then you have to contend with his normal attack of 6…Nilf is a bad mofo

[Finrod]

In the one game I've played with him so far, Major Q9 DESTROYED Nilfheim in two turns. It was brutal.

[gorillanator]

I would use Krug hoping that Nilfheim dealt a decent amount of damage but enough so that Krug would last another few turns to double attack with 7-8 skulls which will probably take him out or nearly take him out depending on previous damage.

[Bobbo]

In the one game I've played with him so far, Major Q9 DESTROYED Nilfheim in two turns. It was brutal.

That's pretty incredible. How were the dice divided up? Was it one of those fluke things, or do you think that Q9 is a decent counter to Nif?

[Pilgrim]

I was wondering the same thing.

[truth]

If it is a tale of a Nilfhelm slaying you be looking for: www.screamingtruth.com

[Jason]

Why does 1 lucky dice roll land someone in the hall of shame

[feekonea]

Another character everyone has overlooked is grimnak. Hes got a 20% chance @ killing the adjaacent nif.

[truth]

Why does 1 lucky dice roll land someone in the hall of shame

Because it's a joke :roll: -.-

[Rÿchean]

read card:

medium or small

cant chomp large or bigger

[truth]

Another character everyone has overlooked is grimnak. Hes got a 20% chance @ killing the adjaacent nif.

Grimnak can only chomp small or medium figures.

[Jason]

That single limitation on Grimnak is what makes Sudema so potentially devastating and intriguing. No limitations + a range of 4 makes her my fav Hero

[Pilgrim]

Ah . . . but all that time in the tomb has left her fairly fragile. Bring up a nice squad of ranged figures and bye bye zombie.

[Jason]

That's why you have to protect Sudema. Add in a Raelin to get her to 5 def, put 1 or 2 squads of gladitrons in front to creat a spider web (Knights of Weston are decent too), and back her up with units with teriffic ange like the Krav and Syv. When I draft Sudema I build the rest of my army around her.

[Nooblar]

All those insta-replies to the Chomp suggestion...sounds like another inductee to the Hall of Shame ;)

Good strategies on Nilf-slaying. I've been hearing about the Denrick+knights tank-like army for a while now. I want to try that one, maybe back it up with a couple roman archers? Krav Maga? Oh, well. Blessing and a curse, I don't have to deal with Nilf for a while yet :?

[Double Oak]

Son and I tried out a little Nilf vs. army of equal points tonight and Nilf went down. 7 yr old son had KM agents and Sir Denrick and even though I took the agents down fairly quickly they put a couple of hickies on her and Denrick did the rest. Hit and run didn't work real well against Denrick either and once he got adjacent, even though I had height, it was over in two swipes.

Nilf has not fared well in this household thus far but we will continue to give her chances........

[Jason]

The Krav + Denrick is kinda an unfair example since that is almost a perfect counter. The Krav are the Best unit in the Game and Denrick is specifically designed to take on Huge figures

[Rÿchean]

All those insta-replies to the Chomp suggestion...sounds like another inductee to the Hall of Shame ;)

Good strategies on Nilf-slaying. I've been hearing about the Denrick+knights tank-like army for a while now. I want to try that one, maybe back it up with a couple roman archers? Krav Maga? Oh, well. Blessing and a curse, I don't have to deal with Nilf for a while yet :?

knights and Denrick....you are already all valiant....take some 4th mass..get the valiant bonus for them and get those 4 ranged shots per turn.... combined with tying him up with knights that bond with denrick...

should be a nice one, two punch...(or should I say 5, then 4 punch)

[ArchonShiva]

Also remember that while six flying moves sound like they'll get you out of anyone's range, in practice his super only works five spaces away, and if he wwants multiple targets he often has to get in even closer.

Most melee figures *will* get to him in a real-world environment. Mimring has higher range, which is why she is able to stay out of reach of so many people.

[Finrod]

In the one game I've played with him so far, Major Q9 DESTROYED Nilfheim in two turns. It was brutal.

That's pretty incredible. How were the dice divided up? Was it one of those fluke things, or do you think that Q9 is a decent counter to Nif?

Three rolls of three two times. Good attack rolls. Bad defense rolls. Dead.

[Double Oak]

Played Wed nt with some buddies and my side had Nilf on my team (plus Finn, Guilty and the KMAgents) and Major Q9 (plus Tagawa, Elite Onyx Vipers) on my teamates against two buds with teams led by KMAgents (plus Alister, McDirk Warriors & Snipers) and Krug (plus Orc archers x2, DW 8000 and Zettian Guards (curious choice of team)).

Major and Nilf were the stars of the game and even though Nilf died it was after wiping out Krug, many orcs, DW 8000 and beating Alister to within an inch of his life.

Nilf is now back in our good graces when going up against a normal team although Major is the stud of studs right now in our games.

[bobofett]

Son and I tried out a little Nilf vs. army of equal points tonight and Nilf went down. 7 yr old son had KM agents and Sir Denrick and even though I took the agents down fairly quickly they put a couple of hickies on her and Denrick did the rest. Hit and run didn't work real well against Denrick either and once he got adjacent, even though I had height, it was over in two swipes.

Nilf has not fared well in this household thus far but we will continue to give her chances........

Nilf is a guy hence king for a title.

[bobofett]

Oh and a good killer for nilf is the AE. just drop them down in a rectangle around him so that they are still in range and start shooting. when nilf advances just keep moving the AE away.

[Jason]

Dw7k is a nice counter draft to Q9

[Agent Minivann]

I think DW7K is a little risky as a Nilf counter. Most of the time it's 100 points to knock off only 1/3 of Nilf's life. I'd almost say it's more worthwhile to go Ne Gok Sa and mindshackle. It's the same odds as DW7K's to kill, but you get the nice bonus of using their own weapon on them. But if you manage to catch one of their other units lollygagging near Nilf when DW7K's head asplodes, it's not that bad of an idea.

I guess that means if your opponent has shaky strategy, DW7K is always an option. Only imagine if it was a common hero.

[Jason]

I said the DW as a counter to Q9 not Nilf

[endpawn]

Me-burq is an excellent low cost counter to Q9. Sentinels and knights of westeron are pretty good against Nilf. Krug can hold his own against either.

[Agent Minivann]

I said the DW as a counter to Q9 not Nilf

Oops, my bad. 20% kill and 85% half kill is better than 5% kill odds. I'm still not sure I'd spend 100 points on it unless I knew I'd have a reasonable chance of some collateral damage.

[Rÿchean]

Me-burq is an excellent low cost counter to Q9. Sentinels and knights of westeron are pretty good against Nilf. Krug can hold his own against either.

MBS special doesn't work on large

[philowar]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.

[feekonea]

hmmmmm thats a good question, maybe i'll e mail it to the hq once i get one. :lol:

[Einar's puppy]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.
That's actually a good question. I would have to say no though. No one has eyes in the back of his head

[killercactus]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.
That's actually a good question. I would have to say no though. No one has eyes in the back of his head

This was just asked in another thread, but I'll answer it here as well. A figure does not need LOS to attack a figure that is adjacent to him. Even Q9 can attack a figure behind him if that figure is adjacent. So, in this situation, assuming both NGS and Braxas were adjacent to Nilfheim, he could attack them both with the Ice Shard Breath Special Attack. Note that Nilfheim can only attack those two figures (unless he kills them both), even if there is another figure with 4 clear LOS spaces, because he is engaged with them.

[guido]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.
That's actually a good question. I would have to say no though. No one has eyes in the back of his head

This was just asked in another thread, but I'll answer it here as well. A figure does not need LOS to attack a figure that is adjacent to him. Even Q9 can attack a figure behind him if that figure is adjacent. So, in this situation, assuming both NGS and Braxas were adjacent to Nilfheim, he could attack them both with the Ice Shard Breath Special Attack. Note that Nilfheim can only attack those two figures (unless he kills them both), even if there is another figure with 4 clear LOS spaces, because he is engaged with them.

I thought that wasn't the case with special attacks.

[yagyuninja]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.
That's actually a good question. I would have to say no though. No one has eyes in the back of his head

This was just asked in another thread, but I'll answer it here as well. A figure does not need LOS to attack a figure that is adjacent to him. Even Q9 can attack a figure behind him if that figure is adjacent. So, in this situation, assuming both NGS and Braxas were adjacent to Nilfheim, he could attack them both with the Ice Shard Breath Special Attack. Note that Nilfheim can only attack those two figures (unless he kills them both), even if there is another figure with 4 clear LOS spaces, because he is engaged with them.

I thought that wasn't the case with special attacks.

Special ATTACKS are still susceptible to engagement restrictions. Special ABILITIES (like Braxas' breath, and other things that require the d20) are not.

[guido]

Just got done playing a game and a big question came up. Nilfheim had Ne-Gok-Sa right in front of him and Braxas in back. Could he hit both with his ice shard special attack or does he need to be FACING both (line of sight?)

I know Mimring can use his fire line attack in any direction, regardless of how he is facing, but can Nilfheim? I mean, can Nilfheim be considered to be turning his neck around to attack a guy in back of him after he attacks the guy in front, or what?

Thanks.
That's actually a good question. I would have to say no though. No one has eyes in the back of his head

This was just asked in another thread, but I'll answer it here as well. A figure does not need LOS to attack a figure that is adjacent to him. Even Q9 can attack a figure behind him if that figure is adjacent. So, in this situation, assuming both NGS and Braxas were adjacent to Nilfheim, he could attack them both with the Ice Shard Breath Special Attack. Note that Nilfheim can only attack those two figures (unless he kills them both), even if there is another figure with 4 clear LOS spaces, because he is engaged with them.

I thought that wasn't the case with special attacks.

Special ATTACKS are still susceptible to engagement restrictions. Special ABILITIES (like Braxas' breath, and other things that require the d20) are not.

Interesting... I don't think I've come across that yet which would explain why I didn't know.

[StLouisBear]

from the Heroscape Advanced FAQs
Can I use a special power on a ranged figure when I'm engaged with a different figure?
When you are engaged with another figure, Special powers (NOT Special Attacks) can still affect figures you are not engaged with. If you are going to use a normal/Special Attack, it must affect the figure you are engaged with.

[killercactus]

I find it funny that Deadeye Dan can use Sharpshooter on another figure, even if he's engaged. However, this is usually the only time I ever use Sharpshooter unless its in a desperation effort.

[NFCfan]

in the quote everyone is copying 1 error has remained uncommented on, if he killed both he could attack any figure within 5 LOS not 4 LOS like in the quote

[guido]

from the Heroscape Advanced FAQs
Can I use a special power on a ranged figure when I'm engaged with a different figure?
When you are engaged with another figure, Special powers (NOT Special Attacks) can still affect figures you are not engaged with. If you are going to use a normal/Special Attack, it must affect the figure you are engaged with.

Now, this doesn't say it must only affect the figure you are engaged with. Theoretically, as long as the figure you are engaged to is attacked, you may attack another figure at a range. It might not be the official rule, but that's how I would read that statement.

[Cavalier]

from the Heroscape Advanced FAQs
Can I use a special power on a ranged figure when I'm engaged with a different figure?
When you are engaged with another figure, Special powers (NOT Special Attacks) can still affect figures you are not engaged with. If you are going to use a normal/Special Attack, it must affect the figure you are engaged with.

Now, this doesn't say it must only affect the figure you are engaged with. Theoretically, as long as the figure you are engaged to is attacked, you may attack another figure at a range. It might not be the official rule, but that's how I would read that statement.All attacks must be against any engaged figures. If all adjacent figures are destroyed and you still have an attak left, you can then attack non-engaged units.

[StLouisBear]

Now, this doesn't say it must only affect the figure you are engaged with. Theoretically, as long as the figure you are engaged to is attacked, you may attack another figure at a range. It might not be the official rule, but that's how I would read that statement.How so? If you attack with a second attack and you're engaged, that attack must also affect who you're engaged to. Some attacks, like Shotgun blast, can attack the engaged figure and a non-engaged figure

[Rÿchean]

If engaged, attacks (special or normal) can only be leveled at the engaged figures until the attacking figure is no longer engaged.
That my fellow scapers, is Heroscape 101.

This is one of the very things that keeps Nilf in check. His special can not be used on the same target twice. The basic game mechanic of having to attack what you are engaged with is what balances that bad boy out. If he had the ability to attack anyone, whether engaged or not, he would be way under priced at 185. One of the main strategies to counter Nilf is to tie him up with low level stuff so he can't risk multiple swipes to disengage and so he has to waste his special attack on fodder units.

[rym]

If engaged, attacks (special or normal) can only be leveled at the engaged figures until the attacking figure is no longer engaged.
That my fellow scapers, is Heroscape 101.

This is one of the very things that keeps Nilf in check. His special can not be used on the same target twice. The basic game mechanic of having to attack what you are engaged with is what balances that bad boy out. If he had the ability to attack anyone, whether engaged or not, he would be way under priced at 185. One of the main strategies to counter Nilf is to tie him up with low level stuff so he can't risk multiple swipes to disengage and so he has to waste his special attack on fodder units.

And that my fellow scapers, is very well put. Thanks Rychean - it doesn't get any more clear cut than that