Deathstalkers

[fejkl]

I searched and found nothing on Deathstalkers, so here goes.

If you've gotten the chance to play with them, what are your thoughts.

I've played them, and against them. Both times they lasted about 3 rounds (only one squad, alas). In both games Maul occurred only once in about 6 attacks. They worked well for quickly engaging Nakita/Gorilla adjacency. They of course work well for countering the Marrdens. They can't be cyberclawed by Gladiatrons.

As for sculpts, I feel that they are among the best in the entire game. Their cybernetically implanted legs, paws, etc. really have a nice look. They're mostly dark grey or charcoal, but their metallic parts come in both silver and gold. The one with wires sticking out of his spine is especially sweet.

Your thoughts?

[Hahma]

I searched and found nothing on Deathstalkers, so here goes.

If you've gotten the chance to play with them, what are your thoughts.

I've played them, and against them. Both times they lasted about 3 rounds (only one squad, alas). In both games Maul occurred only once in about 6 attacks. They worked well for quickly engaging Nakita/Gorilla adjacency. They of course work well for countering the Marrdens. They can't be cyberclawed by Gladiatrons.

As for sculpts, I feel that they are among the best in the entire game. Their cybernetically implanted legs, paws, etc. really have a nice look. They're mostly dark grey or charcoal, but their metallic parts come in both silver and gold. The one with wires sticking out of his spine is especially sweet.

Your thoughts?


I love the way they look and have yet to play with or against them. I only got to play my new wave 5 figs lastnight. I wanted badly to draft them but there was a lot of elevation and water involved in a 3MS map that I made. While there were means to access elevation (10 levels) for double base figs via steps at one area, it would have been too hard to get all three up there before the opponent could block the way and engage one at a time.

Next map I do will be more condusive to these fellas because I really like the way they look and want to see them maul somebody good. I've got two sets of both common packs and one of the Uniques (I had two sets of uniques, but I gave the second set to my nephew lastnight for a prize after he spanked my team).

Look forward to hearing reviews.

[Kahrma]

Did well for me. Their 5 defense gives them some staying power, and their "maul" special helps negate other strong defensive figures. Their 7 movement lets them close pretty quickly. Their 2 hex size is a mixed blessing - they can tie up more opposing figures and don't have to stop for single-hex water, but they can have trouble moving up elevation. Their large size means they don't have to worry as much about fall damage, or about some special abilities/attacks.

I took two squads of Deathstalkers against an opponents 2 squads of Sentinels with Raelin backup. The stalkers were indispensible for getting through such a formidable defense.

I also found them effective for rushing enemy ranged figures - fast enough to close, tough enough to make it through the barrage.

[geddy lifeson]

I love the look of the figs, first thing I noticed when I looked at my new figs, was these were probably my faves. As for playability, I wish I had more luck, yes luck. I had only one squad of them as I was using 2 each of blasts & glads and twice I rolled zero defence dice, one went down against range while having height. I hate rolling 6 blank blue dice :evil:

[Jason]

I think I'd almost always choose the Hounds over the Deathstalkers. The Plague works 30% of the time whereas Maul only works 1/8 at best.


-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

[Kahrma]

I think I'd almost always choose the Hounds over the Deathstalkers. The Plague works 30% of the time whereas Maul only works 1/8 at best.


-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

You also don't get your full movement points 30% of the time, and Plague doesn't work against Soulborgs. I'm still kinda conflicted re: which I like best. I am certain I like the Marrden sculpts better, though!

[bluekitsune13]

Well I tried playing them, but they didn't do much. In the game maul only worked once with minimal benefit. But one game doesn't prove anything, so I'll have to try again some other time.

[reapersaurus]

Well, from a power-pointcost standpoint, IMO there is simply no contest - the MArrden Hounds walk all over the Deathstalkers- it's not even close.

And the function they perform as far as sculpts go, is almost identical.
It's too bad they didn;t make some more unique squad for this game, instead of the Deathstalkers.
There are a metric boatload of different creatures they could have put out that are less redundant than the 'stalkers.

[Jason]

The Deathstalkers would be Grealty improved if you could choose whether you wanted to roll 1, 2, or 3 dice for your attack. It'd add a TON of strategy to them


-Undefeated Herocape Champion

[Roufus]

I'd like to bring up a rather interesting point.
I feel its interesting anyway, if you disagree, well... to heck with you!

Who says that these guys are 'cybernetically enhanced wolves'? If it says that somewhere, I'm sorry, I missed it.
They come from the same planet as the rest of the deathwalkers, which to my knowledge doesn't have any other living creatures (sorry if I'm mistaken.)
And their cybernetics look rather grafted into them, like IN, not ON.

Conclusion: they are robot wolves meant to be disguised as normal wolves. Their cybernetics show through because of whatever happened to them before they got to valhalla.

:!:
I could be wrong, but thats my observation.

[fejkl]

Reapersaurus wrote:

Well, from a power-pointcost standpoint, IMO there is simply no contest - the MArrden Hounds walk all over the Deathstalkers- it's not even close.

The beauty of the Stalkers is that they couter the Marrdens so very well. They're Soulborgs, and they have an ability that negates the Marrdens' sometimes-tough-to-overcome defense.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Reapersaurus wrote:

Well, from a power-pointcost standpoint, IMO there is simply no contest - the MArrden Hounds walk all over the Deathstalkers- it's not even close.

The beauty of the Stalkers is that they couter the Marrdens so very well. They're Soulborgs, and they have an ability that negates the Marrdens' sometimes-tough-to-overcome defense.

So why the heck did Utgar get the Deathstalkers?!? I thought for sure they'd go to Vydar. And I agree - why more dog-like units?
But I'm sure the sculpts are as nice as you say they are, Fejkl! I can't wait to get my sets.

I think the Marrdens are almost too potent with the plague. What the Deathstalkers have over the Wulsinu is that GUARANTEED movement of 7! Not as far as 8 for the Marrdens, but it's a sure thing they'll be moving unless Improved Cyberclawed.

[fejkl]

Yes. That (mostly) guaranteed movement is one aspect that I had overlooked.

[AmishBurrito]

Reapersaurus wrote:

Well, from a power-pointcost standpoint, IMO there is simply no contest - the MArrden Hounds walk all over the Deathstalkers- it's not even close.

The beauty of the Stalkers is that they couter the Marrdens so very well. They're Soulborgs, and they have an ability that negates the Marrdens' sometimes-tough-to-overcome defense.

So why the heck did Utgar get the Deathstalkers?!? I thought for sure they'd go to Vydar. And I agree - why more dog-like units?
But I'm sure the sculpts are as nice as you say they are, Fejkl! I can't wait to get my sets.

I think the Marrdens are almost too potent with the plague. What the Deathstalkers have over the Wulsinu is that GUARANTEED movement of 7! Not as far as 8 for the Marrdens, but it's a sure thing they'll be moving unless Improved Cyberclawed.

If the deathstalkers went to vydar then the blastatrons would get bonus from them too 8)

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

So why the heck did Utgar get the Deathstalkers?!? I thought for sure they'd go to Vydar.

If the deathstalkers went to vydar then the blastatrons would get bonus from them too 8)Darned Blastatrons should've only gotten Homing Device from Gladiatrons or X-17.

[Hendal]

very interesting thread, I love the hounds so very much, the plague is just to fun to use. Sounds like the new wolves are to be their counter, since they can't get plaqued. I can't wait to use them and post my 2 cents on it.

I agree they should be coming up something a lot more unigue then these guys, oh well , the little robot rats look fun to play also

[Sapper]

In the two games we used them they proved to be okay. Maul only worked once or twice and it was on a squad fig. Their move is very nice though, not a crap shoot like the hounds (I always roll low for the hounds).

The hounds may be better but the cyberwolves have their niche.

[Robotech Master]

I've had success running a squad of DeathStalkers alongside a Squad of Marrden Hounds. My opponent has to choose which ones to attack on a turn by turn basis, and they both have 5 defense and have a good chance of moving in 7-8 spaces. Plus, my Marrden's can run up next to the Wolves and help them attack/plague an enemy figure without any worry of they plaguing my own Deathstalkers since they are soulborgs. Played them with Nilfheim and Microcorp agents in a 500 point game, they were quite effective for getting the heat off of the Microcorp and Nilf so that they could come in and clean up from range.

[jaques]

I think the Deathstalkers are getting sold short versus the Hounds.

The 'stalkers have guaranteed movement, they go uphill better than the Hounds, and while their special only scores about half as often as the Hounds', it does three wounds (or more!) instead of one, and no one is immune to it.

A squad of Sentinels bothering you? Send in the Hounds. Major X-17 or Q-9 on a hill? I'll take the Deathstalkers, thank you.

[Robotech Master]

Well, some people are immune to it mind you. Maul only works on Small and Medium targets, so it wouldn't work on Q9. It's great for taking down life on people like Marcus or Mittens.

Still, I like them both. Marrden's and DeathWalkers for the win!

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Well, some people are immune to it mind you. Maul only works on Small and Medium targets, so it wouldn't work on Q9. !

Good point, but Maul would be nice to get through on X-17's beefy Melee Defense.

[fejkl]

I'm wondering why the Stalkers cost 10 more than the Marrdens.

Deathstalkers
Pros:
1. 100% chance of 7 movement.
2. 12.5% chance of 3 unblockable damage (Microcorp notwithstanding) vs. many figures, BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME. This adds up to a MAXIMUM of 9 damage PER TURN.
3. Large size, so immune to many special attacks. (Marrdens have this, too, so it's a wash).

Cons:
1. Maul only works vs. Small and Medium figs.
2. 2-space figures are harder to get up high relief.


Marrdens
Pros:
1. 65% chance of 8 movement.
2. 25% chance of harming up to 8 units PER HOUND. With only one squad, this translates into a MAXIMUM of 24 damage PER TURN. I don't think it is very likely, but I'm doing this for sake of argument.

Cons:
1. 35% chance of <5 movement.
2. Friendly figures may be susceptible to plague damage.
3. See above with regards to 2-spaced characters.


One would think that the ability to inflict up to 24 wounds would add to a squad's point value. I guess that the movement certainty holds more point value than the 25% chance instant wound.

Please feel free to post any additions or thoughts to this. I'd be happy to hear them.

[Roufus]

I think you covered it quite well actually.

[jaques]

Well, some people are immune to it mind you. Maul only works on Small and Medium targets, so it wouldn't work on Q9. It's great for taking down life on people like Marcus or Mittens.

Still, I like them both. Marrden's and DeathWalkers for the win!

Oops. Forgot about the small and medium thing.

[jaques]

I'm wondering why the Stalkers cost 10 more than the Marrdens.

Deathstalkers
Pros:
1. 100% chance of 7 movement.
2. 12.5% chance of 3 unblockable damage (Microcorp notwithstanding) vs. many figures, BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME. This adds up to a MAXIMUM of 9 damage PER TURN.
3. Large size, so immune to many special attacks. (Marrdens have this, too, so it's a wash).

Cons:
1. Maul only works vs. Small and Medium figs.
2. 2-space figures are harder to get up high relief.


Marrdens
Pros:
1. 65% chance of 8 movement.
2. 25% chance of harming up to 8 units PER HOUND. With only one squad, this translates into a MAXIMUM of 24 damage PER TURN. I don't think it is very likely, but I'm doing this for sake of argument.

Cons:
1. 35% chance of <5 movement.
2. Friendly figures may be susceptible to plague damage.
3. See above with regards to 2-spaced characters.


One would think that the ability to inflict up to 24 wounds would add to a squad's point value. I guess that the movement certainty holds more point value than the 25% chance instant wound.

Please feel free to post any additions or thoughts to this. I'd be happy to hear them.

The statistics on the effectiveness of these two specials are all about what you're attacking, too.

3 Hounds on a single small or medium hero figure = 25% chance to do one unblockable wound.

3 Deathstalkers on the same figure = (approximately) 32% chance to do 3 or more unblockable wounds.

[Jason]

I like the mardens better, atleast with the hounds you don't have to worry about their special attack getting worse the more your attack is boosted

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

3 Hounds on a single small or medium hero figure = 25% chance to do one unblockable wound.

3 Deathstalkers on the same figure = (approximately) 32% chance to do 3 or more unblockable wounds.

Ick. Well there's a good example why the Deathstalkers are 10 points more. Marrdens lose 10 points based on that unreliable movement.

interesting stats Jaques. thanks!

[nickmodaily]

3 Hounds on a single small or medium hero figure = 25% chance to do one unblockable wound.

3 Deathstalkers on the same figure = (approximately) 32% chance to do 3 or more unblockable wounds.

Ick. Well there's a good example why the Deathstalkers are 10 points more. Marrdens lose 10 points based on that unreliable movement.

interesting stats Jaques. thanks!

That's completely true. With the Hounds you could essentially waste a turn marker on them if you roll less than a seven. Depending on where you are in the game, it could really hurt your army.

[Fallen Templar]

Maul is great I love it like my pen and paper

[Jason]

The hounds still seem superior to me. Their special ability can kill multiple figures at once. With squads dominating the game Hounds can take out a squad before they even attack PLUS often there is no difference between doing 1 wound or 3+ since all squad members have 1 life




-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The hounds still seem superior to me.

I'll always be a Marrden Fan. Except when I'm up against them. Grrr.

PLUS often there is no difference between doing 1 wound or 3+ since all squad members have 1 life



No, but Jacques was referring to Heroes. Looks like Deathwalkers are a wiser choice for sure.

[Jason]

The Deathstalkers though seem risky to play. If going against a Hero you can either roll 3 attack and hope for a maul knowing that if you miss there is a good chance for it to get blocked or do you try boosting their attack knowing the odds of maul go down significantly. Most expensive Heroes additionally are Large/Huge which are immune to Maul


-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The Deathstalkers though seem risky to play.

There's no risk involved with the Wulsinu?!?

Most expensive Heroes additionally are Large/Huge which are immune to Maul



Well let someone draft Tae or Spart and send the Deathstalkers forward.

Marro Plague is no good on Soulborgs, so it's not without it's own flaws.

[Taeblewalker]

Just remember, by the time you get decide that the attack of a Deathstalker has been boosted too high for a reasonable chance at Maul, you are essentially whining about an attack of 4+. If all three Deathstalkers are at elevation +Tae or Astrid, you have three attacks at 5! That's three Alastairs, at less cost.

And let's not forget that 12.5% chance of denying units on higher ground their defense dice.

Robowolves rule! (yet to own/play them, of course)

[jaques]

The Deathstalkers though seem risky to play. If going against a Hero you can either roll 3 attack and hope for a maul knowing that if you miss there is a good chance for it to get blocked or do you try boosting their attack knowing the odds of maul go down significantly. Most expensive Heroes additionally are Large/Huge which are immune to Maul


-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

Gosh, you're right. Plus, they only have 5 defense dice, which only produces an average of 1.66 shields. This means they will usually die when attacked with 4 or more attack dice.

Criminey! It's like a light bulb has gone on in my head! From now on, I'll only play units with 4+ attack and 6+ defense. Anything less is just not worth it.

:wink:

[Hahma]

The Deathstalkers though seem risky to play. If going against a Hero you can either roll 3 attack and hope for a maul knowing that if you miss there is a good chance for it to get blocked or do you try boosting their attack knowing the odds of maul go down significantly. Most expensive Heroes additionally are Large/Huge which are immune to Maul


-Undefeated Heroscape Champion

Gosh, you're right. Plus, they only have 5 defense dice, which only produces an average of 1.66 shields. This means they will usually die when attacked with 4 or more attack dice.

Criminey! It's like a light bulb has gone on in my head! From now on, I'll only play units with 4+ attack and 6+ defense. Anything less is just not worth it.

:wink:

I thought I smelled a little sarcasm. Now I found the source.