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View Full Version : Vehicles used as vehicles.....RULES attached.


TheMedic
February 5th, 2008, 09:12 AM
There are some good rules for breaking objects, swinging lamp-posts and throwing cars about. NOW, with the attached rules, you might be able to use vehicles for the purpose they were designed for.

But WHY??????

what about using a car to ram the breakable wall / knock down the lamp post, or just escape in a hurry, perhaps knocking down an oponent on the way?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/DSC00142.jpg

"Hey Agent Loraine, how about we drive over and grab a couple of donuts?"

"You know we can't drive Agent Ken, we'll just have to get in the car and wait till Hulk comes along to throw us over to the donut shop".

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What follows is my first draft rules. Please feel free to try them and comment.

Last night and this morning, I threw together some rough ideas for simple vehicle movement. Please feel free to comment, and enlarge on these as you see fit. At the end of the day, the game is NOT about vehicles, so the rules governing them should be simple, so as not to detract from the game.

DOUBLE SIDED CARD.

The vehicle card is double sided. One side represent a driveable vehicle, the other side represents a wreck which may still be used as a moveable object weapon, but cannot be driven. I have worked the life points out to a total of 7 (Although this can be adjusted) – The initial 3 for a good car, the remaining 4 for a large hunk of useless metal, which canbe hurled about until total destruction.

Driveable Vehicle side

LIFE – 3
MOVE – 8
ATTACK/DEFENCE – 4-6*
OCCUPANTS – 2-4*
SIZE - (height) - 2/4 or 5 etc (see note)

*(dependant on type of vehicle)


Wrecked Vehicle

LIFE – 4
MOVE – 0
ATTACK/DEFENCE – 2-4*
OCCUPANTS – 0

VEHICLE TYPES AND SIZES

Vehicles come in various types: Motorcycles / Trikes / Small Cars / Large Cars / Vans etc.

Dependant on the type, they can be used as terrain of certain heights. to establish the height of the vehicle parts stack terrain next to the vehicle.

Therefore the hood of a car may be level 2 and the roof at 3. A panel van on the other hand may not have a hood which can be stood on, but the roof at level 4 or 5.

USING THE VEHICLE.

Only a small or medium humanoid figure (size 4-5) may operate a vehicle.
Turn 1 – Enter the vehicle – and Roll 20 sided dice – Over 8 starts vehicle – (END of turn, this figure can do nothing else this turn.)
Turn 2 – Vehicle may now start to move as per movement rules.

Each vehicle can carry a number of passengers. These must all be small/medium humanoids, and one of the vehicle occupants must be the allocated driver.

MOVEMENT

Vehicle counts road and concrete hexes as 1 space.
Grass and loose rock hexes cost 2 to enter
Sand hexes cost 2 to enter, and EACH sand hex entered requires a roll on the 20 sided dice. On a 10 or under the vehicle become stuck and can no longer be driven whilst on the sand tile.

Unlike a double hex creature, a vehicle is NOT flexible enough to be able to flip around on it's axis. To turn around, the front must be moved to one of the 3 forward facing hexes (diagram to follow). Therefore, it would need to move a couple of hexes before it can face in the opposite direction.

TURN OR DRIFT

The vehicle follows it's front. (unless reversing). So determine the positon of the front of the vehicle, the middle section always goes into the hex the front just left, and therefore the bak of the vehicle looks after itself. In a tight turn, the back will swing out, and may hit an obstacle that the first two hexes of the vehicle did not!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/Car-move.jpg

The image above shows the hexes that the front of the car may enter. The car will always face the direction the arrow is pointing, OR face the way the vehicle was facing first - This is a drift, rather than a turn.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/Car-drift.jpg http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/Tight-turn.jpg


This image shows how the rear end of the vehicle swings out in a fishtail as the vehicle turns.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/swipe1.jpg http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/swipe2.jpg
This pair of images shows how the rear end of the vehicle swings out in a fishtail as above and strikes an obstacle. In this instance it will be resolved as a collision, with both vehicles rolling for damge, as per the collision / ramming rules

A vehicle can be driven in reverse, but not in the same turn as it moved forwards. Exactly the same rules apply as for driving forwards, but following the rear of the car.

Most 1/43 scale vehicles will be a single hex in width and either 2-3 hexes long – (in my experience British & European cars are 2 hexes, American cars are 3). For movement purposes, use the front hex as a guide, the remainder of the vehicle follows in the same way that a double hex creature does.) Vehicle cannot stop it’s movement on a split level. If it cannot fit on it’s final destination, it cannot move there. A vehicle cannot move through gaps that it cannot physically go through.

TRAVELLING ON TOP OF VEHICLES NEW

A figure may travel on the roof of a vehicle, but there is a risk, and the risk increases the faster the vehicle is travelling. If a figure was on the roof you need to roll dice at the end of the movement phase to see if the figure falls. For each space the vehicle travelled this turn you take 1 combat dice - SO, if the vehicle travelled 3 spaces, you use 3 dice. These are all then rolled for EACH of the spaces moved. If you roll a 1-2 blanks in any single roll, the figure falls, if you roll 3+ blanks, the figure also takes an unstoppable wound.

RAMMING (destructable objects)

When a vehicle is used to RAM attack an object, both the target and the vehicle will be damaged. Roll the attack dice normally but then the target AND the vehicle must roll defence dice, and are both liable to be damaged.

The following text has been replaced - Roll dice against Attack Defence on vehicle card. Then roll defence dice as normal on the target object. Whatever the result is, BOTH objects receive the damage.

RAMMING (Figures)

If at any point in the vehicles movement it enters the same space as any small / medium figure, roll for an attack using cars attack/defence stats. Target rolls for defence exactly as it would for a normal attack. Vehicle also needs to roll for defence. Vehicle does NOT need to stop movement, and regardless of result, figure is moved by the player who owns the figure 1 hex to the side, out of vehicles path. It must be placed on an adjacent space on the same level to either side. IF there is not a clear same level space, the figure can be placed in the spaced it originally started in, or directly behind the vehicle, if it ended it's movement ON that space - (This would represent the figure being flipped over the top of the vehicle.)

For large figures double hex / size 6 and any with the Super strength symbol. Vehicle movement stops as per destructable object above, but attack defence is carried out as for other figures.

Any collision that results in a wound on the vehicle, requires a 8+ roll on the 20 sided dice to see if it is still running, or if it needs to be re-started.


FROM DRIVEABLE TO WRECK

When the vehicle loses it’s last life and becomes a wreck, all occupants need to roll a dice. 1 skull = 1 unblockable wound. All figures are removed from the wrecked vehicle, and placed adjacent to it. The player controlling the vehicle / figures decides on placement, as per the pedestrian rules above.

IAmBatman
February 5th, 2008, 09:36 AM
I've been trying out how to do movement for objects larger than two hexes for a long time now, whether boats, cars, titans, Galactus, or whatever. I'll tell you this, my knockback thread seemed more cut and dry ... :?

hi1hi1hi1hi1
February 5th, 2008, 06:28 PM
Vehicle movement would be cool, but once you get larger than 2 spaces you m ay run into some trouble. By all means try your shot at it, I think it is possible you would just need a lot of little clauses to destribe individual situations.

TheMedic
February 6th, 2008, 06:39 AM
Right - I've roughed up some basic rules. See if they work for you.

GreyOwl
February 6th, 2008, 08:16 AM
One thing that sems off, thematically, is that if the cars follow the same rules as double-based figure it means you can just flip them around. And without using movement points.

TheMedic
February 6th, 2008, 08:20 AM
One thing that sems off, thematically, is that if the cars follow the same rules as double-based figure it means you can just flip them around. And without using movement points.

Very good point. I will have to work on that bit. I had worked in that a vehicle could be put into forward or reverse gears, although not worded it yet.

I think that will only be a minor tweak in wording. Thanks.

Parduz
February 6th, 2008, 08:36 AM
i'm not sure about a pair of things:
Taking a vehicle requirig 2 full turns seems to much to me. I will leave the
"13 or more" try to start for some special cases only: in normal situation a turn to enter and the next to go is more fair.

Also, i will change the movement rule:
instead of using the doublebase rules, i will go with somewhat like "for each movement go ahead one space, then using the rear hex as a pivot point, you may turn the front of one hex."
This rule can be used also for vehicles larger than one hex: just choose what is the rear hex to use to pivot.

I also will like a rule to fire from the inside of the vehicle.... maybe for the non driving figures only.

Just my 2cents... i like your ideas.

TheMedic
February 6th, 2008, 08:43 AM
i'm not sure about a pair of things:


I also will like a rule to fire from the inside of the vehicle.... maybe for the non driving figures only.
.

Glad folks are tweaking these rules. It means that we will eventually have a workable system.

I'd already considered the possibility of firing from inside a vehicle, and would say something along the lines of:

If the vehicle moved during this round all ranged attacks from passengers will be at 1 or 2 less dice.

IAmBatman
February 6th, 2008, 11:38 AM
DOUBLE SIDED CARD.

The vehicle card is double sided. One side represent a driveable vehicle, the other side represents a wreck which may still be used as a moveable object weapon, but cannot be driven. I have worked the life points out to a total of 7 (Although this can be adjusted) – The initial 3 for a good car, the remaining 4 for a large hunk of useless metal, which canbe hurled about until total destruction.

When the car moves from driveable to wreck, should there be an explosion risk? Or is that something better not dealt with until the car is hurled or the wreck is hit?


USING THE VEHICLE.

Only a small or medium humanoid figure (size 4-5) may operate a vehicle.
Turn 1 – Enter the vehicle – End turn.
Turn 2 – Driver may attempt to start vehicle – Roll 20 sided dice – Over 13 starts vehicle – (END of turn, this figure can do nothing else this turn.)
Turn 3 – Vehicle may now start to move as per movement rules.

This is kind of cool, but it seems like a hassle - I wonder how often I'd bother, particularly on a sand/grass/rock heavy map. It seems like figures inside the car should receive some sort of defensive bonus as well to make it more worthwhile. It's harder to shoot someone in a car than someone on foot, I'd think.

Each vehicle can carry a number of passengers. These must all be small/medium humanoids, and one of the vehicle occupants must be the allocated driver.

Define "humanoid".


Grass and loose rock hexes cost 2 to enter

I'm not sure what "loose rock" is. Do you mean just any rock tiles?

Sand hexes cost 2 to enter, and EACH sand hex entered requires a roll on the 20 sided dice. On a 10 or under the vehicle become stuck and can no longer move unless dragged out or thrown.

How would you drag it? A better wording for this might just be "On any roll of 10 or lower, the vehicle becomes stuck and can no longer be driven while on sand tiles."

Unlike a double hex creature, a vehicle is NOT flexible enough to be able to flip around on it's axis. To turn around, the front must be moved to one of the 3 forward facing hexes (diagram to follow). Therefore, it would need to move a couple of hexes before it can face in the opposite direction.

This diagram is essential and will be the most important part of this process, IMO. Moving straightforward is intuitive. Turning will be tricky.

RAMMING (destructable objects)

Roll dice against Attack Defence on vehicle card. Then roll defence dice as normal on the target object. Whatever the result is, BOTH objects receive the damage.

RAMMING (Figures)

If at any point in the vehicles movement it enters the same space as any small / medium figure, roll for an attack using cars attack/defence stats. Target rolls for defence exactly as it would for a normal attack. Vehicle also needs to roll for defence. Vehicle does NOT need to stop movement, and regardless of result, figure is moved 1 hex to the side, out of vehicles path.

For large figures double hex / size 6 and any with the Super strength symbol. Vehicle movement stops as per destructable object above, but attack defence is carried out as for other figures.

Any collision that results in a wound on the vehicle, requires a 13+ roll on the 20 sided dice to see if it is still running, or if it needs to be re-started.

The language in this section, particularly the Ramming destructible objects part, is a bit messy and hard (for me at least) to follow. It could use some cleaning up.
Also, if figures are moved physically during an attack, you need to specify who will be responsible for the movement, what happens when their are no unoccupied spaces in the movement range, how to handle elevation changes and the placement of other objects in the way, and so on.

FROM DRIVEABLE TO WRECK

When the vehicle loses it’s last life and becomes a wreck, all occupants need to roll a dice. 1 skull = 1 unblockable wound. All figures are removed from the wrecked vehicle, and placed adjacent to it.

You'll also need to specify who places the figures adjacent, what happens with elevation changes, what happens when there are no free spaces adjacent to the car, etc.

robbdaman
February 6th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Vehicle movement has some weird things to it but most of all the limitations that a car has for turning and going up levels. I would say that a car couldn't go up levels if they are 2 or 3 high. It has to be a gradual hill or it'd just crash into it with it's bumper. Of course then you can introduce 4 wheel drive trucks that can overcome that. I think the rules you have would work fine as long as players don't try to use a car all the time. If someone jumps in a car and tries to run over everyone with it in every game that could be annoying.

R~

IAmBatman
February 6th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Speaking of jumping, can you leap a car from one same level space to another (with a pit of some sort between them) or would you just have to go downhill and then back uphill?

robbdaman
February 6th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Speaking of jumping, can you leap a car from one same level space to another (with a pit of some sort between them) or would you just have to go downhill and then back uphill?

I would say yes though there are no jumping rules for the game even for figures. You'd have to make it so that the car would have to be able to move a certain distance before it could make the jump of course. Say if the car has a MOVE 12 it would have to move at that prior to the jump or something.

R~

TheMedic
February 6th, 2008, 06:19 PM
When the car moves from driveable to wreck, should there be an explosion risk? Or is that something better not dealt with until the car is hurled or the wreck is hit?

I think it would be better to leave explosions out. It would become an extra, unneccesary complication.



This is kind of cool, but it seems like a hassle - I wonder how often I'd bother, particularly on a sand/grass/rock heavy map.

True. But the use of vehicles should be extremely limited, so as not to detract from the real game. The idea was to have the option there, but it should not be a heavily vehicle oriented game.

It seems like figures inside the car should receive some sort of defensive bonus as well to make it more worthwhile. It's harder to shoot someone in a car than someone on foot, I'd think.

yes - I will look at that.



Define "humanoid".

I would say humanoid should be any human figure, and any similar race that uses tools in a similar way - ie Elves, Marro, Orcs etc. I figure that those type of races would have similar abilities.
Beasts such as wolves, lions, birds and so on, (even monkeys) woul dnot have the physical or mental capacity to drive. and very large creatures such as dragons would be afraid to get in the car in case they had trouble opening the door and getting out again :lol:. At the end of the day, any limitations to use would have to be at house rule or referee discreton.


I'm not sure what "loose rock" is. Do you mean just any rock tiles?

Yes. I worked on the basis that the road and concrete terrain from Marvelscape would be good driving surface, but the rock from the standard sets would be un worked mountain type surface.


How would you drag it? A better wording for this might just be "On any roll of 10 or lower, the vehicle becomes stuck and can no longer be driven while on sand tiles."

That wording would work fine. I was just thinking what options players would come up with.... ie. The Hulk goes up tot he car and pulls it back onto the road.


This diagram is essential and will be the most important part of this process, IMO. Moving straightforward is intuitive. Turning will be tricky.

Still working on this part.

RAMMING (destructable objects)


RAMMING (Figures)



[quote]The language in this section, particularly the Ramming destructible objects part, is a bit messy and hard (for me at least) to follow. .......

I'll have a closer look at that. I think it may be more self explanatory when there are cards.

You'll also need to specify who places the figures adjacent, what happens with elevation changes, what happens when there are no free spaces adjacent to the car, etc.

Yes!

TheMedic
February 7th, 2008, 06:49 AM
I have made a few more slight ammendments.

If someone jumps in a car and tries to run over everyone with it in every game that could be annoying.

R~

That is one of the reasons I wanted it to be a bit of a risk / hassle to jump in a car and go. If you jump in and start, it's too easy and everybody will try to do it. If there is a chance that the car won't go anywhere, you'll think twice, unless there is a good reason for making the attempt.

IAmBatman
February 7th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I love the thematic aspect of that too. I can just imagine having a bunch of human figures in the car as the hordes of zombies slowly approach, trying desperately to get it running ...
come on ...
come on ...
why won't this thing start?

TheMedic
February 7th, 2008, 10:15 AM
.....A bunch of human figures in the car as the hordes of zombies slowly approach, trying desperately to get it running ...
"come on ...
come on ...
why won't this thing start?"

....Look. I'll get it started as soon as I can tune this damned radio in OK!!!

Hah - Kids today have NO idea about priorities.... :roll:

slobberblood
February 7th, 2008, 12:00 PM
My son and I use Warhammer 40K Vehicle cards (version 2), but we use a lot of 40K conversions when we are playing. The cool thing about the cards is they have lots of fun things that happen to the Vehicle when you penetrate it.

TheMedic
February 19th, 2008, 04:55 AM
I haven't forgotten about this, and will do more wok on it later.

I've just picked up a couple of Corgi Batman vehicles 1/43 scale, so want to make up som especial rules around them. I'm thinking of doing cards which will give certain pieces of equipment special powers. In the same way that figures have special abilities.

I have the following vehicles -
Batmobile - 1980's
Jokermobile - 1950's
Two Face Car - 1950's

SO - Any suggestions for special abilities?
I have a few ideas tucked away at the moment, just wondered what your ideas are.... Or do you need to see the pictures first?

IAmBatman
February 19th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Still waiting to see that chart/picture showing how movement will work for these larger than 2 hex vehicles. I think that's an obstacle you have to get around before I can get really interested in custom vehicles.

TheMedic
February 19th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Still waiting to see that chart/picture showing how movement will work for these larger than 2 hex vehicles. I think that's an obstacle you have to get around before I can get really interested in custom vehicles.

So far, the vehicles I have looked at are all just 1 hex wide, which is fine. Some vehicles are 2 hexes long, which is fine, and the remainder are 3 hexes long. I think that lorries and other large vehicles could become problematic.

For a 3 hex vehicle I have been working on the basis that the middle portion will end up in the hex that the front was last in. This does mean that the back end will swing out a little to keep in line, but that is actually quite feasible, as the car would possibly do a fishtail skid.

If the space that the rear enters is clear, there is no problem, if not, you would have to resolve it as a collision, with car / person / objects being subject to some damage.

My apologies for not getting the diagram photo's done yet. I confess to being a lazy :oops: sometimes!

TheMedic
February 19th, 2008, 05:31 PM
See the newly added section TURNS AND DRIFTS, which I have now illustrated.

TheMedic
February 19th, 2008, 05:46 PM
One thing that sems off, thematically, is that if the cars follow the same rules as double-based figure it means you can just flip them around. And without using movement points.

Thanks GreyOwl. You gave me a great special power idea for 2-faces car!
This car will have just that ability - To start it's movement either as it is, or flipping it 180 first. :D

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/DJ_crazyjay/DSC00180.jpg

IAmBatman
February 20th, 2008, 12:18 AM
Interesting graphs. Thanks for posting. I'll have to give them a closer read when I'm a little bit more awake.