Marvelscape: How it should have been!

[presti71]

I have played Marvelscape for the first time recently and I am hugely disappointed with it. Next to Heroscape it is a terrible product for the money.

There is not enough terrain/pieces and only 10 figures(5 per side) is weak. Also, the proposed expansion coming out is even lamer and not near what HS waves are.

This is how Marvelscape should have gone down:

-The Marvel Master set should have been the same size and scale as the HS Master set with a similar complement of terrain and objects.

-It should have had the 10 figures it already comes with PLUS the 10 figures from the upcoming expansion.
Also I would have added in squads to Marvelscape with 2 squads in the master, 1 for each side.

The heroes could have SHIELD agents with Nick Fury as their unique leader and the villains could have had either: AIM with MODOK, HYDRA with Madame Hydra or another leader, or even DOOM's DOOMBOTS.
This would have added some low point cost grunts to the game.

At this point we would have approximately 30 figures in the Master set which would put it at HS Master level.

-Expansions: They should do the Marvelscape expansions in Heroscape's Wave format, with four packs of 4 to 5 figures.

I would do a different theme for each pack in the first Wave. you could have a Spiderman pack with Scorpion, Sandman, Black Cat, ect.
An X-men pack with various mutants.
An Avengers pack with various team members and maybe Kang the Conqueror or Ultron.
Lastly you could have a Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer cosmic pack with FF villains and cosmic characters like Firelord, Drax, and FF villains also.

If they had released Marvelscape like this I think the game would have gone over a lot better and treated with more respect as a game. This would have given players a lot of figures and terrain to work with and kept them busy until the 2nd wave.

Also, instead of the Large Figure expansions, they could do specific theme expansion packs in between the waves similar to what Heroclix does.

After the first Wave, they could release an X-men theme pack with a sentinel and new terrain/objects that fit into the X-men theme along with a few X-men characters NOT in the Wave set.

The next theme set could be Avengers, and so on...

Think about it!

[Fatespuppet]

This definitely would've gone over much better then what we currently have. My biggest gripe about all the recent HS and MS releases is the lack of terrain. I wonder if Hasbro realizes that terrain is the biggest seller. I don't think people were buying 4+ SotM masters just so they could have massive Marro armies(although I'm sure some did). Most probably got them for the terrain. I know that if RotV dropped to 12 bucks each we'd all be selling organs to get them. :P

I think the Marvel game is great(since it IS just regular scape with more points and less strategy), but it could definitely benefit from some cheaper heroes/villains and some squads. The best thing they can do now is to speed up the release a bit. If we only see one expansion/addition in 2008, then the game will probably never see another one.

[Sherman Davies]

I agree about the need for at least two Marvel waves a year, especially if they're only going to be two packs of five figures each wave. Of course, I don't want playtesting of new figures to suffer, so two waves might be the most they should put out.

As for terrain, I think there were some people on this site who suspected that Hasbro will begin packaging terrain-only sets soon. I believe they were using some statements from the designers at GenCon and a couple of blurry photos as evidence. I hope they're right.

[ej]

I'm sure that the Marvel game was seen as an experiment in a few areas... I just hope they don't believe that it's a failed one.

[Jexik]

Not everyone buys stuff for the terrain. I buy it almost exclusively for figures. I won't mind if they stop putting 2-hexers in small expansions entirely. I feel that SotM had a nice mix of terrain. Even though it had fewer total hexes, it added a lot of liquid and 7-hex tiles into the mix. If I get a second set, it will mostly be so I can have some extra sets of Stingers and Nagrubs. I don't anticipate ever having more than 2 of any MS or terrain expansion unless I get them for free.

While the amount of terrain in Marvel is sparse, that's not the reason I still haven't bought one. Lack of squads and figures is. The fact that the person I play 60% of my games with already has it is another.

I'm actually reluctant to get much more terrain because I don't know where I'd put it all. I still haven't opened my second FotA which I won a couple months back.

[HS Beast]

I pretty much disagree with everything the thread starter has to say.

As someone who was introduced to Heroscape via Marvelscape, it's nowhere near a terrible product for the money. In fact, it's a very good product for the money. It's just that the way Super Powers works in the format, alters how the game plays. Which isn't a bad thing, because that's how it's supposed to be. Heroscape is at it's core an Army game, where as Marvelscape at it's core is a Superhero Brawl. So even without rules changes, you have a different feel.

There's plenty of terrain in the Master Set for the 10 figures that's included. Since you're not likely to use them all at once. Plus as was noted above, the game dynamics are meant to feel more like a huge Superhero Brawl, instead of an Army game. Superhero Battles are typically close quaters chaotic slugfests in cities. A larger expansion with more terrain would have changed the feel of it, as the heroes are now trudging across an open battlefield for some reason.

Yes, there is a lack of squads in the game at the moment. But Marvelscape is attempting to capture the feel of the comics. And normal squad types arn't a match against characters with Superpowers for the most part. Yes in comics there is SHIELD, AIM, HYDRA, etc. But the massive fights still come down to Superpowers vs. Superpowers.

The Superheroes are what's going to attract kids and new players to the game. Characters you're suggesting like Nick Fury, Madame Hydra, Modok, etc. don't have the name recognition that the heroes have. Dealing with less recognizable characters and squads would mean cutting out or delaying heroes that people know and want even longer. Squads have their place in Marvelscape at some point, but not yet. Especially when technically you have squads with hero and villain teams.

Why they're not following the exact Heroscape formula for expansions are simple. Because unlike Heroscape which is unlimited, and they just need to come up with new ideas to expand the game, Marvel is an existing property that is being mined. They can't blow all the A-List characters right off the bat, because then there will be nothing to encourage sales of future expansions. That's why Mr. Fantastic, Thor, Wolverine, Cyclops, etc. arn't in the first round of expansions. Because they'll help sell the next waves and the lesser known characters included with them.

There's plenty of respect out there for the game. Just because you and a few other classic Heroscape gamers don't like the way it's being handled, doesn't mean that it's not a fun and respectable game. And there's plenty to keep players busy, especially if the game draws people to Classic Heroscape and all that's available. With 2008 bringing more figures, the game will grow. Yes, the delays for 'The Reinforcements Arrive' is a pain, but it won't hurt the game in the long run.

Theme packs as you're calling for them are a bad idea for the above reasons. Because filling out teams that way shortens the lifespan of the game, because you won't have characters left that can support expansions to get the lesser known B and C list characters out there. Since unlike Heroclix, multiple versions of core characters arn't as necessary with this game. Yes, theme packs or large expansions will happen... but they will probably not be team building focused. They will be things like Galactus, Sentinels, etc. Large figures with added terrain, with new scenarios and new rules.

[Cavalier]

Marvelscape, how it should have been:
http://www.fwtwr.com/store/images/heroscape-marvel-conflict-begins.jpg

[HS Beast]

Marvelscape, how it should have been:
http://www.fwtwr.com/store/images/heroscape-marvel-conflict-begins.jpg
:up:

[ej]

I pretty much disagree with everything the thread starter has to say.

As someone who was introduced to Heroscape via Marvelscape, it's nowhere near a terrible product for the money. In fact, it's a very good product for the money.

...clipped very thoughtful post.


That was a very thoughtful post. You get +1. And I also agree with everything you've just said, except for the part you neglected to include, which is that ej should get everything for free, right now, which I'm sure is something we all can get behind.

[allskulls]

Marvelscape, how it should have been:
http://www.fwtwr.com/store/images/heroscape-marvel-conflict-begins.jpg
or...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/allskulls/Classic-Marvel.jpg

or...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/allskulls/Q10inMarvel.jpg

[Sherman Davies]

I pretty much disagree with everything the thread starter has to say.

As someone who was introduced to Heroscape via Marvelscape, it's nowhere near a terrible product for the money. In fact, it's a very good product for the money.

...clipped very thoughtful post.


That was a very thoughtful post. You get +1. And I also agree with everything you've just said, except for the part you neglected to include, which is that ej should get everything for free, right now, which I'm sure is something we all can get behind.

Agreed. Great post, HS Beast. As for ej getting free stuff, let's start with a free SotM and some more Marro squads. Can never have too many. :wink:

[jcb231]

I think the set was alright for the price, unless you got ripped off somewhere. It's not the same great bargain as ROTV, but I don't expect we will EVER see a deal like that again. Swarm of the Marro comes close, but it's still not as good as Rise.

The expansions, on the other hand, are exactly like regular Heroscape hero packs...I don't see how they could be criticised as a bad deal unless you don't like any heroscape packaging. Ten heroes split over two packs....five heroes per. Most waves in classic heroscape have had a unique hero pack with five heroes, just like that.

[Lotus]

I think Marvel is just fine how it is.

I got my moneys worth from the set. Also buying a game for $25 is an easier buy than for $40. I most likely would not have purchased a Marvel starter at $40 actually. I am perfectly content with the Wave amount as well. Picking up 2 boosters for $20 every 6 months or so is fine. Picking up 4 boosters for $40 every 3 months, never gonna happen.

I don't have a ton of disposable income, therefor I like my games to release at a pace I can keep up with, which is why I play more Marvel than Classic.

[Rythos]

As someone who has just gotten this for the holidays and played it three times so far, I'd hardly consider myself an expert, but I'll toss my thoughts out there.

I thoroughly enjoyed all three games my son and I played, and the different feel to the game was readily apparent. It goes much faster than classic, but like everyone else I felt that the terrain included made it a cramped affair.

If the first expansion is another box set with a similar amount of terrain and 10 more figures, that might help spread things out a bit. Ultimately I think the only way that the terrain problem gets solved is if you treat this as an "expansion" and supplement with already existing terrain. Also unless they can jam a second expansion through the system quickly I think people will still remain unsatisfied with the number of choices available.

Rythos

[IAmBatman]

Not to get into too much of this particular conversation (you can guess where I stand on the product), but I don't get all the complaints about not enough terrain. Haven't you guys run out of room yet?? I have sooo much fricking terrain I can't use it all, and I only have two ROTV, one RTFF, one SOTM, two castle sets, two snow sets, and one lava set. With that and the booster hexes, I have soooooooooooo much fricking terrain, seriously.

[Fatespuppet]

I have a ton of terrain as well, but it goes pretty quickly once you start to build up to higher levels. Storing it is the biggest concern, but the post holiday storage sale is making that a non-issue. Just grab a 20 to 40 gallon plastic tub and it will hold a TON of terrain. Walmarts around here are selling a 20 gallon tub for $5, and one holds all the terrain I've accumulated from 4 Marvel sets, 1 RotV, 1 Volc, 1 Snow, 1 castle and 3 SotM.(plus the accumulated hexes from figures)

I know it's off topic, but this is what the regular figures go into.
http://www.tacklebargains.co.uk/acatalog/okeechobee_T1200_fishingbag.jpg

It has 8 containers inside. 1 for each army(2 for Utgar) and 1 for Marvel. Until Aquilla is released the last one is holding dice and counters and such. The dragons and such don't fit(obviously) but they go into the tub. :D

[Agent Minivann]

I agree about the need for at least two Marvel waves a year, especially if they're only going to be two packs of five figures each wave. Of course, I don't want playtesting of new figures to suffer, so two waves might be the most they should put out.

As for terrain, I think there were some people on this site who suspected that Hasbro will begin packaging terrain-only sets soon. I believe they were using some statements from the designers at GenCon and a couple of blurry photos as evidence. I hope they're right.
There's a new blurry photo?!

Cue skanky ring girl with the round three sign!

In all seriousness, I don't mind Marvelscape's lack of terrain/figures. Make it too big to begin and it shortens the time till they run out of A list characters.

[Hogg]

I wish there were a little more terrain. It would be nice to be able to add some elevation to the maps.

I would like them to package the expansions the same way as the Marvel MS, with ten figures, some terrain, and a new destructible object, like a chain link fence or something urban.

[Eclipse]

One thing to keep in mind as far as expansions go:

Number of figures isn't really a good way to judge expansion size. As far as game design is concerned, it's more a question of the number of units designed. In that regard, the 2 packs of 5 figures is actually close to on par with Classic releases. Despite having anywhere between 20-26 figures per release, classic waves generally only have 11 new units. That seems to be what determines the cut-off point for a wave, so all things considered, the Marvel method is about equal, but the Unique Hero nature allows it to be released in fewer packs.

[Snotwalker 8000]

I have to say that MarvelScape is worth every penny...

But that's only because I just picked up a set yesterday for a measley $6.00 at Target's 75% off sale. :lol:

I would never have purchased it for $25. I even passed them up when they were marked down everywhere for $12. But when they finally fell to $6, they seemed to be priced just right.

The new asphalt terrain is cool, and will look great mixed in with my lava sets, and the breakable wall is another nice addition. And I have to say that the figures look great as well! As others have mentioned, it is a quality release... and I agree that Marvel battles probably do play better on smaller maps, so the fewer terrain pieces make sense as well... and for those of us already with large collections of Classic Scape, we really don't need that much more terrain anyway.

For huge Marvel fans, I'm certain it was a welcome addition to the Scaping World. For me, I'm still hoping for a Star Wars expansion some day... :D

[CStrife07]

I <3 liscensed heroscape.

I just got my second box of Marvelscape today for 6 bucks. I have a good amount of terrain but I am still not satisfied. I will buy ROTV next time I see it on sale.

I can't wait until I am 16 and end up blowing all of my hard earned money on plastic, but Christmas money keeps me happy with what I have right now.

[Onacara]

I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of terrain if they had decided to make each expansion another big box set. So each Wave would be 10 figures and terrain.

Without the recent sales I could not see paying the MSRP for multiple sets for the terrain since the customs you could make with the duplicate figures are so limited.

The other thing is that there will not be common squads for quite awhile if ever in Marvelscape, which I think is one of the things that makes Heroscape so much fun to play.

just my :2cents:

[rdhight]

I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of terrain if they had decided to make each expansion another big box set. So each Wave would be 10 figures and terrain.

They certainly passed up some of my money by doing it the way they did. I'll buy the 2-booster wave when it comes out, probably, but if they had put in some asphalt tiles and another structure the same size/quality as the warehouse ruin, I definitely would have bought it, and gladly paid more than I'm willing to pay for 10 more heroes alone. Oh well, Hasbro's loss.

[Fatespuppet]

I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of terrain if they had decided to make each expansion another big box set. So each Wave would be 10 figures and terrain.

They certainly passed up some of my money by doing it the way they did. I'll buy the 2-booster wave when it comes out, probably, but if they had put in some asphalt tiles and another structure the same size/quality as the warehouse ruin, I definitely would have bought it, and gladly paid more than I'm willing to pay for 10 more heroes alone. Oh well, Hasbro's loss.

I agree. With two boosters of figures people will basically buy 1 each(maybe 2) and that's it. I have 8 of the Marvel sets. Granted most of that is because of the sales, but I know I would've gotten a second just for the terrain. Maybe they'll wise up and offer terrain sets with more buildings and destructible objects.

[Ugly-Caco]

Marvelscape, how it should have been:
http://www.fwtwr.com/store/images/heroscape-marvel-conflict-begins.jpg
or...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/allskulls/Classic-Marvel.jpg

or...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/allskulls/Q10inMarvel.jpg
With a comic book inside. Maybe an issue related to a marvelscape scenario.

[MeanBone]

Including a comic book is an excellent idea. A short, simple, colorful book would be something Marvel could probably throw together quite easily and cheaply.

I think the lower price point was the reason they did Marvelscape this way, and it works fine. Marvel obviously is about a few superheroes rather than a bunch of grunts (and if you want some henchmen or "cannon fodder," the robots and agents from Heroscape make a good fit).

Hopefully the Marvel expansions sell well enough, and we'll get another Master Set in the next year or two with another building or two included. An X-men theme would be cool (and that might explain why only one of them, Beast, is in the first expansion?) You could put Colossus, Magneto, Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Storm on the cover in basically the same artwork format as in The Conflict Begins. The other five characters I'd like to see in it would be Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Juggernaut, Mystique, and Toad. I think it would appeal to fans of the comics and the movies.

[Elginb]

I don't understand why they didn't make it on par with regular Heroscape Master Sets. They can't have thought that it would've been cost prohibitive-- if a no-name game like Heroscape was already selling well at $40, how could it fail with the Marvel brand on it? And I don't think that an all hero version captures the essence of Marvel better than one that would include squads-- in comic books, superheroes frequently take on legions of evil operatives. So, if I could redo the first Marvel Master Set, I'd do it like this:

Unique Heroes
Hulk
Thanos
Silver Surfer
Abomination
Dr. Doom
Iron Man
Captain America
Red Skull
Spider-man
Venom
*******
Rick Jones (Cap & Hulk's sidekick)
Sharon Carter (SHIELD Agent and Cap's girlfriend)
J. Jonah Jameson (Spidey's Antagonist)

Unique Squads
Blood-brothers (Minions of Thanos) - 2 person squad

Common Squads
Innocent By-standers - 5 figure melee squad with 0 defense
Thugs - 4 figure melee squad
NYPD - 3 figure ranged squad
SHIELD Operatives - 3 figure ranged squad with SHIELD Agent bonding
Skrull Agents - 2 figure ranged squad with some benefits to being near multiple figures (to represent the benefits of shape-shifting)

Destructible Objects
2 Ruins

Terrain
At least as much as came with the SOTM set

That comes to 32 figures, which corresponds to the 32-hexes worth of figures in both of the Classic 'Scape Master Sets. It would show the full advantages of both Heroes and Squads, as well as add a new dimension to the game distinct from Classic 'Scape, that of protecting innocent by-standers. I would've totally bought this kind of Marvel Master Set-- Hell, I would've bought several!

[Cavalier]

You are not taking in to account the licensing fees invloved.

[Elginb]

How much more would that make it cost, do you think? Do lesser known supporting characters costs as much to license as the better known ones?

[Cavalier]

How much more would that make it cost, do you think? Do lesser known supporting characters costs as much to license as the better known ones?No, the license is, usually, for the entire line. No one outside of Hasbro and Marvel are going to know how much that license cost, but they don't come cheap.

[Elginb]

No, the license is, usually, for the entire line. No one outside of Hasbro and Marvel are going to know how much that license cost, but they don't come cheap.

Well, I guess this a wish list, and that's what I would've liked to have seen. We'll just have to speculate how much it would have cost...

[MattMan5]

agreed presti i was disappointed by it and ithink there should be sqauds maybe for Heroes have cops and villians have bank robers or something