What is the scale of a HS hex?

[DoesntCompute]

I want your initial impression of HS scale so...

PLEASE ANSWER THE POLL QUESTION WITHOUT LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK...

This question came up in my group. I don't think there is one answer but we had fun discussing the possibilities.

My friend has always pictured the hexes being about 5 feet. His reasoning is a human sized figure fits nicely in a single hex. I always pictured the battles being a bit more grand than 50' volcanoes so I always pictured the scale to be about 100 yards per hex.

IMO, we have no way of knowing because we aren't given enough information. If we knew how long a turn was, we might be able to derive how far a unit could move in that time. Every scale we came up with had problems:
5' - The best ranged units of all time/space can only shoot 50' or less???
100 yards - why can't units be within 100 yards of each other (restraining order?)?
10 miles - Deadeye sure has nice range on that ol' cowboy rifle of his!!!

We decided that you can't know and that it is irrelivant because the game is fun.

[hextr1p]

5 feet or less, is my opinion. Especially when you consider the fact that everything else falls into this scale of proportion (trees, walls, bridges, ruins, castles, etc.).

We decided that you can't know and that it is irrelivant because the game is fun.
Yeah, this is a good approach to take. Don't overthink things like this too much when it comes to the established system of the game. You know it's working when you have fun with it. No need to bring a huge sense of reality into the game to overshadow your enjoyment.

[DoesntCompute]

From Dan's bio, "Dan always brought down the big game, often making his shots from well over 100 yards." With a range of 10 for Dan that comes out to 10 yards per hex.

I've always felt the vertical scale is different than the horizontal scale.

[LilNewbie]

I tend to think it ranges from 5 to 10 feet.

Are you considering the entire hex piece or just the raised portion of the hex piece (the green area on a grass tile)? Just curious.

Newb

[reapersaurus]

:deadhorse:

[Bannister]

I selected approx. 10 feet. I think it is either that or less.

Just like you however, I don't think it really matters.

:D

Bannister

PS. Reaper :boring:

[CornPuff]

From Dan's bio, "Dan always brought down the big game, often making his shots from well over 100 yards." With a range of 10 for Dan that comes out to 10 yards per hex.



Quoting the Bios? that's cheating! :twisted:
I also voted for 10 yards. I think that when melee figures fight, they are sorta at the edge of their hexes. I also like to think Syvvaris can shoot over 40 feet.

[Su-Bak-Na]

I'd say 5 feet or less, but now that I think about it I'm probobly wrong.

[K/H_Addict]

i say probably somewhere around fifty yards. idk why, it just seems right to me. I voted for 100 because 50 wasnt a choice

[bluekitsune13]

Here's my reasoning for everything:

I imagine a hex being at least 5 feet across, and maybe a foot and some odd inches high. A reason a figure can only shoot accurately up to maybe 50 feet is because Valhalla is a much bigger planet than Earth is, or perhaps the atmospher is thicker, so it would decrease the effectiveness of projectiles at longer ranges. The gravity would also be the reason why a figure could die from falling 5 feet onto the ground, and not being able to jump across gaps in hexes. (minus like the monks... but whatever)

[CornPuff]

Maybe the next poll should be how long a turn lasts, so we can see just how fast syvvaris reloads, or how slow the zettian guards really move.

[Aranas]

I think it needs to be 5 feet wide. No more than 10. If they were larger, how could you explain a passing swipe from a swordman in the middle of a 10 yards hex! :shock:

[K/H_Addict]

well, if a HS hex is about 5 feet, what scale are the figs?


i am wondering this because i was at the hobby shop yesterday and they had a poster for some kind of gundam minis available august of 03 up and it said they were 1/144 scale...

[HyperactiveSloth]

As far as scale goes, I'm pretty sure the figures in HS are approx. (in gaming terms) 28mm scale, which equates to 1/64th scale. The actual scale could be between 25mm and 32mm, but I've never done that detailed of measuring.

If you want to know exactly, get out several figures with a height of 6. Measure their height (top of head down) in mm. Average the measurements, and you'll have the figure scale. To translate that to a ratio scale divide 1800 by the number you came up with for figure scale. (Example 1800/28 = 64, 1800/25 = 72, 28mm scale = 1/64th, 25mm scale = 1/72th, etc.)

In other words, in 1/144th scale a figure 18ft tall would be about the same height as an 8ft tall HS figure.
Does that help? :)

[Doc_Savage]

This is like asking the following questions:

How many square feet is a property in Monopoly?

How much time does a turn of Magic the gathering represent?

How large is a square in Chess?

There are no answers to these questions because these are abstracts, not simulations.

[D-Dyzzle]

Here's my reasoning for everything:

I imagine a hex being at least 5 feet across, and maybe a foot and some odd inches high. A reason a figure can only shoot accurately up to maybe 50 feet is because Valhalla is a much bigger planet than Earth is, or perhaps the atmospher is thicker, so it would decrease the effectiveness of projectiles at longer ranges. The gravity would also be the reason why a figure could die from falling 5 feet onto the ground, and not being able to jump across gaps in hexes. (minus like the monks... but whatever)

i like this reasoning

This is like asking the following questions:

How many square feet is a property in Monopoly?

How much time does a turn of Magic the gathering represent?

How large is a square in Chess?

There are no answers to these questions because these are abstracts, not simulations.

:rofl:

[Taeblewalker]

Just a thought - If the hexes are 100 yards across, that means that a stnikin' Gladiatron (20 points figure) can block any medium figure from moving 100 yards in all directions, all without doing anything! That must be the real CRAB CLAW OF DOOM!

[Taeblewalker]

Another thought - The Knights of Weston are abysmally slow...at drawing their swords. How else to explain that they can move 400 miles before attacking?

[django]

As far as scale goes, I'm pretty sure the figures in HS are approx. (in gaming terms) 28mm scale, which equates to 1/64th scale. The actual scale could be between 25mm and 32mm, but I've never done that detailed of measuring.

If you want to know exactly, get out several figures with a height of 6. Measure their height (top of head down) in mm. Average the measurements, and you'll have the figure scale. To translate that to a ratio scale divide 1800 by the number you came up with for figure scale. (Example 1800/28 = 64, 1800/25 = 72, 28mm scale = 1/64th, 25mm scale = 1/72th, etc.)

In other words, in 1/144th scale a figure 18ft tall would be about the same height as an 8ft tall HS figure.
Does that help? :)

thud! what happened??

[HyperactiveSloth]

As far as scale goes, I'm pretty sure the figures in HS are approx. (in gaming terms) 28mm scale, which equates to 1/64th scale. The actual scale could be between 25mm and 32mm, but I've never done that detailed of measuring.

If you want to know exactly, get out several figures with a height of 6. Measure their height (top of head down) in mm. Average the measurements, and you'll have the figure scale. To translate that to a ratio scale divide 1800 by the number you came up with for figure scale. (Example 1800/28 = 64, 1800/25 = 72, 28mm scale = 1/64th, 25mm scale = 1/72th, etc.)

In other words, in 1/144th scale a figure 18ft tall would be about the same height as an 8ft tall HS figure.
Does that help? :)

thud! what happened??

:?:

[Aranas]

Here's my reasoning for everything:

I imagine a hex being at least 5 feet across, and maybe a foot and some odd inches high. A reason a figure can only shoot accurately up to maybe 50 feet is because Valhalla is a much bigger planet than Earth is, or perhaps the atmospher is thicker, so it would decrease the effectiveness of projectiles at longer ranges. The gravity would also be the reason why a figure could die from falling 5 feet onto the ground, and not being able to jump across gaps in hexes. (minus like the monks... but whatever)
This is a fun idea to play with. As stated on so many threads, we shoud NOT even try to bring realism into a game but it is fun to play with this idea. It would also explain why flying figures in Valhalla "hop" instead of hoovering above ground. Just too exhausting!!! :D

[Kepler]

This is like asking the following questions:

How many square feet is a property in Monopoly?

How much time does a turn of Magic the gathering represent?

How large is a square in Chess?

There are no answers to these questions because these are abstracts, not simulations.

HS is far closer to a simulation than Monopoly or Chess. So even though HS is an abstraction, the question has at least some meaning.

My guess is between 5 and 10 feet.

[LilNewbie]

Measuring a RL's foot (considering an adult human male's foot is roughly equivalent to 1') and then comparing a Hex from edge to edge using the same measurement gives close to 7' across. Hex height is close to 1.5'.

Newb.

[Elginb]

Maybe the range represents not so much the actual range of the weapon, but rather the point at which the weapon's accuracy becomes negligible in a high intensity combat situation. If we're assuming that everybody is constantly moving and seriously stressed out, then I figure that might have some merit. Anyway, that's my rationalization...

[theats]

3 feet across, one foot tall, precisely.

[theats]

a so;ldier would not feel inspired by someone on a dinosaur 100 ft away. think of ruins,
a bow with a range of about 20, acurately, is good, and a bow with an accuracy range of 27 feet is good, but a sniper rifle with an effictive range of 30 is weak.

[webhead817]

Measuring a RL's foot (considering an adult human male's foot is roughly equivalent to 1') and then comparing a Hex from edge to edge using the same measurement gives close to 7' across. Hex height is close to 1.5'.

Newb.

That's about where I'm at too, I was thinking 6 to 7 feet. All of the physical components are in the same approximate scale....otherwise, the castle is what, like 100 miles long?

As far as range goes...range has to give way to game mechanics, otherwise rifles and what not would be able to cross an entire standard board. Range in this game is similar to that of HeroClix...Superman in the comics can use his heat vision from outer space to hit the earth's surface, but in the game, he can barely hit halfway across the board. IIRC, Star Wars minis has unlimited range for blasters, but has a lot of terrain on the maps, and special targetting rules (you have to shoot at whoever is cloeset generally).

[RobWeaver]

I think there are actually several "scales" at work all at the same time. For instance, there's figure scale, which is roughly 30mm, except in the well-documented cases of huge figures like Mimring. He's really probably out of scale, but wouldn't fit well on the board if properly proportioned. Then there's vertical scale, which I think is exaggerated a little in order to make getting height advantage attractive. I'm not sure that the vertical scale and the distance scale are the same at all. The range scale seems to have in mind the effective rather than maximum range of all the weapons involved, but even here, it's fudged a bit. Anyone who's ever handled a Lochaber axe can tell you it can strike farther than a boradsword, yet the 2 both have the same range in HS. I went a bit mad trying to figure out the range when I first got the game, then I gave up because this was clearly one of the areas where realism was sublimated to playability. So, how big is a hex? It depends.

[RobWeaver]

Oops, sorry to double post! Yes Star Wars ranged weapons have unlimited range, but you have to have uunblocked LOS to target. With all the terrain scattered around the board (and the fact that there are only 2 cover types, full and partial), that's more difficult to do than it sounds. The same concept doesn't transfer directly to HS, though.

[robaula]

hmm... I reckon somewhere between 5 and 10 feet. Theres an option for 1000 miles??!!! I would like to see someone try to argue the case for that!!!

[theats]

yep 1000, everyones a giant, except Jotun, hes a mega giant, we are the speck of dust brunacks flaming sword.

[robaula]

I really cannot belive that someone has ticked the 1 mile box....

Own up then - who was it? That's a ridiculously lengthy distance.... Think of those poor bastard Tarn's if they frenzy over any over.... they would need new shoes in a blink :wink:

[theats]

ok, i did it.

[theats]

just kidding, 3feet, remember, and 1 ft high. not 1.5, you don't have a bunch of 6ft tall paratroopers, or secret agents, do we?

[Vydar]

I didn't vote because I believe the correct answer is 7'1", which is halfway between the first two options. I posted this idea back on HSHQ.

Basically, the way I calculated it is that a height 5 figure must be taller than height 4 and shorter than height 5, a height 4 figure must be taller than height 3 and shorter than height 4, and so forth. I assumed a minimal increment of 1" (you could do this with centimeters too). I also assumed a linear scale.

I found that the most reasonable scale is to have every level or height increase equal to 17". A scale of 18" per 1 unit of height didn't seem to work, as all height 5 figures would all have to be over 6' tall. The majority of humans in HS are height 5 and since I don't believe most humans in RL are over 6' tall, I threw that out. 16" didn't seem to work out as all height 4 HS humans would have to be shorter than 5'4". This seemed a bit short to me as height 4 is pretty short. I preferred the 5'8" that the 17" scale gave me.

My end scale was this:

Unit Height Correspondence to Real Life Sizes
Using 17" increments:

Level -1: -1'5"
Level 0: 0"
Level 1: 1'5"
Level 2: 2'10"
Level 3: 4'3"
Level 4: 5'8"
Level 5: 7'1"
Level 6: 8'6"
Level 7: 9'11"
Level 8: 10'4"
Level 9: 11'9"
Level 10: 12'2"
Level 11: 13'7"
Level 12: 15'

Since hexes are exactly the width of 5 hexes stacked on top of each other (aka height 5) a hex width is:

Hexes width = 7'1"

I know a lot of people will disagree with this and say that it is meant to be abstract and that figure height isn't supposed to be taken literally but simply as the "height they can climb." They'll also complain about how short ranged weapons are if that is truly the scale. Personally, I think the ranged weapons are abstracted for game balance purposes. Besides, we have archers shooting accurately almost as far as snipers, not to mention twice as fast (Syvarris and Deadeye Dan).

[theats]

Does it really matter?
Heroscape rocks anyway!! :P

[robaula]

Does it really matter?
Heroscape rocks anyway!! :P

True... interesting debate though!

[Vydar]

Measuring a RL's foot (considering an adult human male's foot is roughly equivalent to 1') and then comparing a Hex from edge to edge using the same measurement gives close to 7' across. Hex height is close to 1.5'.

Now that I've read the thread through, I'm impressed at how close LilNewbie's measurements are to mine. I've always thought Hasbro did a good job keeping figures to scale. Most height 4 figures are just a tad shorter than height 4 and most height 5 figures are just slightly shorter than height 5. LilNewbie worked from the figure sizes to determine hex size. I worked the other way and we came out within 1" of each other's result. Hasbro's attention to figure scale has impressed me once again! (I came from WizKids collectible games - mostly MechWarrior, but a little dabbling with Mage Knight. They were fairly inconsistent in scaling their figures correctly, though I've heard since AoD they've been working on it.)

[Nooblar]

Yeah, in my mind these calculations settle the debate. The only inconsistency with the WYSIWYG interpretation is range, and that is easily explainable by multiple theories (heavy gravity being my favorite ;))

[RichardD]

You know my view - in common with most wargames (including skirmish games like Warhammer 40k, and mass battle games like DBA/DBM), HS has two different scales going on - and the vertical scale of heights is different to the horizontal scale of ranges.

FWIW, I reckon we've got about 1 step = 1 foot vertically, and 1 hex = 10 yards horizontally. But the level of abstraction might actually lead to an elastic scale - that the more hexes there are, the greater the range on a logarithmic scale. 7 hexes we know is effective musket range (50-100 yards) from the Minutemen, but perhaps Dan's sniper rifle is accurate to several hundred yards despite having a range of 10. A logarithic scale would allow a single hex to be 5', yet still have greater ranges representing *proper* distance.

For an example of situations where scales are not constant, see the London Underground map - the outlying stations are MUCH further apart than the archetypal map suggests.

[RichardD]

The only inconsistency with the WYSIWYG interpretation is range, and that is easily explainable by multiple theories (heavy gravity being my favorite ;))

Except that some weapons could be beam weapons, or something else unlikely to be as affected by gravity. And if the gravity's so bad that a super sniper rifle can only shoot 50', how come the monks can jump 60' high?

[markwars]

They have really developed calf muscles?

[pashadowops]

As far as scale goes, I'm pretty sure the figures in HS are approx. (in gaming terms) 28mm scale, which equates to 1/64th scale. The actual scale could be between 25mm and 32mm, but I've never done that detailed of measuring.

If you want to know exactly, get out several figures with a height of 6. Measure their height (top of head down) in mm. Average the measurements, and you'll have the figure scale. To translate that to a ratio scale divide 1800 by the number you came up with for figure scale. (Example 1800/28 = 64, 1800/25 = 72, 28mm scale = 1/64th, 25mm scale = 1/72th, etc.)

In other words, in 1/144th scale a figure 18ft tall would be about the same height as an 8ft tall HS figure.
Does that help? :)

I followed you all the way upto "If you want to know exactly," then everyhting was blah, blah blah blah blah. :wink:
No really I understood and agree. The scale does seem to be approx. 28mm. Based on that I voted for 5' or less only because there wasn't a choice of between 5 and 10. Based on a D&D hex of about 1" = 5', the HS hex is approx. 1.5" giving us about 7.5' per hex. Given the size of the avg. HS figure is so close to that of a 28mm D&D mini I conclude that the distance of an HS hex is 7.5'. This concludes our lesson for the day. Please leave a donation as you leave and I am here all week. Thank you... :)