Strategies for countering Nilfheim?

[Worldturtle]

I don't know about you guys, but Nilfheim pretty consistently rocks many of the armies I field. Usually I find that the dragon's high mobility enables him to hop around pretty freely. I'm frequently the victim of hit-and-run strikes, where he'll hang back and blast my melee units from height, then hop over my front line and attack my ranged troops when I try to bring them to bear.

Obviously, some units are able to withstand his withering barrage for a few turns due to high defense or life, like Ne-gok-sa, Q9, and obviously Krug. Largely due to the fact that he can't strike these figures repeatedly with frost shards. Squad figures, however, even the Krav Maga Agents, usually fair somewhere between poor and terrible. (And trust me, I've tried the Krav Maga, only to see Nilfheim charge and engage several of them, dispatching a significant part of the squad handily). The trouble arises when you consider his relatively high mobility on many small maps versus other heroes. You may have some tough units that can threaten him, but he's evasive enough to remain out of engagement with them.

Anywho, any thoughts or strategies you guys use when facing Nilfheim? Am I just missing something simple? Perhaps I need a few faster units that I can sacrifice in an effort to engage him and tie him down? Deathreavers mayhap? (Despite the fact that frost shards pierces their scatter?)

I'd love to hear your thoughts, except for Jexik, he doesn't get to read this thread and develop devious counters to new strategies.

[Metaknight]

Charos works pretty well too! Welcome to the site! Nice to meet ya'!

[tyguy94920]

Whenever my brother picks a Dragon, I go straight for :jotun:

[Worldturtle]

Charos works pretty well too! Welcome to the site! Nice to meet ya'!

Hey thanks! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Oh and Tyguy, that jotun icon is fantastic! :lol:

[Mooseman]

"Ooh! a LTLFTP"

I've used Niflheim more times than I've played against him, but in my games Q-9 can be affective, either wittling Niflhiem down or making him engage to attack.
I only play against 2 other people though, so that could be affected by our playstyles.

[jean_jacques246]

I think using Charos would be a good counter, but it's always fun to use Nilfheim against Nilfheim and outmanuever your opponent...or cringe in regret when your Nilfheim is killed instead. Ignore my last sentence, Charos is your best bet. :duh:

[Browncoat]

The best counter to Nilfheim that I've found is the Deathreavers. You need to get the rats mobile in the first round. Since Nilfheim is a flyer, he can move across the board in a hurry, and you need the rats to engage him out of range of your other figures. The rats' defense is decent enough to outlast Ice Shard generally, and if not, they're only 40 points.

Once Nilfheim is isolated, hopefully you can move in a ranged squad and pick him off. I've also had a lot of luck using Cyprien or the Soulborgs.

[tyguy94920]

Charos works pretty well too! Welcome to the site! Nice to meet ya'!

Hey thanks! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Oh and Tyguy, that jotun icon is fantastic! :lol:

Thanks, if you click the "View more Emoticons" link when your posting, you'll find a whole load of great smileys.

~SpyHunter- Hoping you already didn't know that :unsure:

[goodhueq]

I will agree that Nilf is pretty good, especially in a 250 point army. We are practicing for our Krug Holiday next Saturday and my friend Ian (azeroth00) uses Nilf better than anyone I've ever seen. Only Krug has been able to counter him so far, though when I used Nilfheim, Cyprien killed him and Cap Am once so I don't play him as well.

Charos, Jotun, and Krug are my three counters, only one of those allows more army at 250 points.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Swarms will take him down easily. I love it when somebody takes Nilfelheim and I have my knights just waiting for him. The most he can attack is 3 a turn. The knights have decent defense that they may only lose 1 or 2 a turn. His range is 5, so the knights can engage him on his next turn. Throw in a Champion such as Denrick or Alastair and Nilfelheim won't be able to keep up with the attacks. He would have to kill 2 squads of knights, Denrick or Alastair or Gilbert, and Eldgrim just to get his points worth.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Well I wrote something to post here, clicked submit and apparently it never posted.

For a squad against Nilfheim I'd say Minions of Utgar. They have a high enough defense to survive his Ice Shard, and can outmanuver Nilfheim slightly being only one-spaced. Also when the minions are on the offense, they could take out a chunk of Nilfheim's life with Deadly Strike, especially if they are on height.

[War Solves Everything]

Nilfelheim is used well as a second wave. First your first wave goes to eliminate all ranged figures then Nilfelheim swoops in unchallenged, unless, you have Mr. Vampire himself. :twisted:

[Nadom]

Isamu, Isamu, Isamu
For 10 points, he has phantom walk to get through the front line that should be in front of Nilfheim, Vanish (which works against special attacks), and 5 attack against the mighty Nilf. It's like he was designed to kill powerful Jandar heroes or something... :duh:

[goodhueq]

Isamu is always worth his points, often being 18 and a half times his points.

[nerdyninja]

Isamu might just be a super effetive nilf killer

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, Worldturtle!

On behalf of our electrically engineered and frostbitten community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, who thinks three squads of Marro Stingers ought to take the big guy nine times out of ten

[justin]

I figure 3 squads of Tagawa archers, one squad of Tagawa Samurai, Kaemon Awa (who is a Tagawa), and Hatamato Taro (also a Tagawa) is a pretty good army. Add in Hulk/Abomination, Cap. Am., Red Skull, and SS. are an almost unstoppable 1 on 1 army (I don't rember the Pt. values).

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Not really, actually. Any ranged attack will beat that Tagawa army, and it goes over the 500 point limit by 65 points. Adding in the Hulk, Captain America, Red Skull, and Silver Surfer adds a whopping 1100 points to that army! There's better things you can do then.
P.S. One more post till my 2000th...

[Sci-fi Messiah]

Major Q-9 as already mentioned will take a chunk of points, but prove effective and the same goes for Charos. Isamu is always worth a shot with such a low point cost as well. Oddly the unit that I've had the most success with (as far as slaying dragons goes) is Crixus. He can take a beating and keep going just long enough to damage (if not destroy) Nilfheim. Of course luck may vary.

[MechaBeast]

Any high defense figure squad or hero can occupy Nilf. I find that engaging him so he can't use his special attack if the one hes engaged with survives the first blast seriously reduces his threat. Rats are nice, if you surround him with rats and engage him 1 at a time, Nilf can be easily mowed by ranged fire.

While Isamu can vanish and get extra attacks on Nilf. I wouldn't say he's a counter. If Isamu causes a wound however, he'll certainly take out his points worth.

[DeadEye]

I think using Charos would be a good counter, but it's always fun to use Nilfheim against Nilfheim and outmanuever your opponent...or cringe in regret when your Nilfheim is killed instead. Ignore my last sentence, Charos is your best bet. :duh:

You should go for the wall, its better for those kinda statements :brickwall:

DeadEye

[Pallindromemaster]

When you're formulating counter strategies the question you want to ask yourself is this: Is there anything that Kaemon Awa CAN'T kill?

[Nadom]

Any high defense figure squad or hero can occupy Nilf. I find that engaging him so he can't use his special attack if the one hes engaged with survives the first blast seriously reduces his threat. Rats are nice, if you surround him with rats and engage him 1 at a time, Nilf can be easily mowed by ranged fire.

My biggest mistake in the first tournament I was in was to have Nilfheim be my first line of attack against an almost all-Minion army. I didn't realize that with Ice Shard Breath's range of 5 if I failed to kill a minion, I would be engaged next turn. Nilfheim lasted for less than a round.
If someone controlling Nilfheim allows him to become engaged to a high defense squad, they're playing him wrongly. Nilfheim's mobile enough (6 move and flying) that even if an opponent breaks through his front line (Nilfheim should almost always have a meat shield in front of him), Nilfy should be able to flutter away to safety before taking too much damage. Countering Nilfheim should include someone who is more mobile than him to chase him down (Cyprien, anyone? Chilling touch FTW!) and/or someone with a beefy enough ranged attack to crack through 5 defense (assuming that Nilfy uses his flying to get height advantage... like Sonlen).
Charos should kill Nilfheim one-on-one, but take into account that counterstrike doesn't work against specials and that Charos is 25 points more... doesn't sound like a very efficient counter to me (same goes for Marvel with the exception of Spider-Man and Venom).
And, of course, above all of this we need to consider Pallindromemaster's question:
When you're formulating counter strategies the question you want to ask yourself is this: Is there anything that Kaemon Awa CAN'T kill?
No. No there is not. :)

[Jexik]

I like Aldin's idea of Stingers.

Also, I just found this old one, must have been around when RV came out:

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=202&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

[MechaBeast]

If someone controlling Nilfheim allows him to become engaged to a high defense squad, they're playing him wrongly. Nilfheim's mobile enough (6 move and flying) that even if an opponent breaks through his front line (Nilfheim should almost always have a meat shield in front of him), Nilfy should be able to flutter away to safety before taking too much damage.)

Playing keep away with Nilf isnt as easy as it sounds, theres tons of stratagies and units that can engage Nilf. Sure you could keep all order markers on Nilf and keep him away from threats but if you want to attack with Nilf you are still only 4 melee spaces away. Initiative switches, disengage, flying units, and range units can all counter keep away. I agree that you dont want to lead the charge with Nilf, but saying that being engaged by a high defence unit means your playing the unit wrong is just silly.