Roman Archers Compared To Zombies

[Hero Hot Hatch]

There are some scenarios in which the roman archers can be played strategically. For instance, setting them behind a line of sentinels (I don't own sentinels yet but presume that they are tough holding the line based on the card) assuming the other army does not have minions or something like that or space to place anything adjacent for the moment to the romans. That way the romans with repeated 6 attacks can be deadly. However, on an open field they are as good as Wendy's chicken nuggets - get eaten fast. They are worth 55 points.

The zombies, which I don't own yet either, are troubling. They are worth 60 points. The Romans of course have range and the arrow volley. Assume that the Roman's Arrow Volley is equivalent to the Zombie Onslaught without the range, but the zombies have the Rise Again bonus, Horde Movement and 3 defense (1 defense for the archers). I think that the zombies are undervalued when compared with the Roman archers. Just 5 points costlier but can multiply? The Romans range advantage is somewhat offset by the horde movement as you can encircle the enemy, etc., but the much stronger defense, movement and capacity to multiply of the zombies should give them more than just 5 points IMO over the 55 given to the Roman archers.

I know that there are synergies and combinations, etc., However, if I had multiple sets of zombies and multiple sets of archers, once the zombies manage the break the line and get three adjacent to the archers, wouldn't they just take over proving that they can be worth more than just 5 points more than the roman archers. Has anyone tried this?

This comes down to my request that Hasbro has to make some tough badass archer squad for Jandar (heavily armored if necessary) worth more than 120 with "at least" 4 defense and 4 attack and some nice special attack. The heavy armor could be used an an excuse to limit movement and range depending on how many points they cost also.

Syvarris can be awsome if you keep him running (with that range, but you'll run out of space soon or the templars could get to him or something like that) and his 4 life is almost like if he were a squad.

These new jandar archers that I want should be mean. Although historically archers have had weak defense, and the designers might be making things historically accurate (or consistent with established believes) when applicable, I would not mind some real tough badass archer squad.

The samurai archers are a great addition, I love them, counter strike can come in handy, but not there yet completely despite the total coolness about them.

How many of you have played them? I have only played the Roman archers and they can be handy if well positioned and behind the line for instance, but many times they just get eaten fast.

Note: I'm still new to HeroScape and I'm still learning the details and reading a lot online and don't own many sets yet. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Uprising]

This comes down to my request that Hasbro has to make some tough badass archer squad for Jandar (heavily armored if necessary) worth more than 120 with "at least" 4 defense and 4 attack and some nice special attack. The heavy armor could be used an an excuse to limit movement and range depending on how many points they cost also.

I know it's really cliche but I would like Utgar to get some Heavy Gruts with Crossbows or something similar.

The samurai archers are a great addition, I love them, counter strike can come in handy, but not there yet completely despite the total coolness about them.

How many of you have played them? I have only played the Roman archers and they can be handy if well positioned and behind the line for instance, but many times they just get eaten fast.
I've used and played against the Samurai Archers a bunch of times. In my opinion and experience they are one of those squads who are bad on paper but seem to perform rather well during a game. I think it's the 4 D they get with height in addition to counter strike that is a pain to deal with. They have some decent staying power for a range squad. I really like em. If I'm doing a themed army, and I always do, I take them over the Harquebus for my ranged detail 95% of the time. That might change with Kato, but not right now.

[DeadZa]

I can attribute a lot of early expansion costs to the game designers playing it cautious. Would the Roman archers cost 55pts now? I really doubt it. I’d wager 10pts less or so actually to keep them really viable. Of course in any game that is based on expansion sets (collectable or not) there are going to eventually be characters that are not so great. Also worth noting the zombies have a really awesome hit zone of just their heads while Romans can be killed in the toes. Probably doesn’t amount to too much difference but it can be a bonus and is yet another one up the undead have over the Romans.

Also, as a note, why don’t you like elf archers? Very random but they can be killer. I really doubt Jandar (or anyone) are going to get these super archers you want with 4 attack and 4 defense.

[LilNewbie]

I can attribute a lot of early expansion costs to the game designers playing it cautious. Would the Roman archers cost 55pts now? I really doubt it. I’d wager 10pts less or so actually to keep them really viable. Of course in any game that is based on expansion sets (collectable or not) there are going to eventually be characters that are not so great. Also worth noting the zombies have a really awesome hit zone of just their heads while Romans can be killed in the toes. Probably doesn’t amount to too much difference but it can be a bonus and is yet another one up the undead have over the Romans.

Also, as a note, why don’t you like elf archers? Very random but they can be killer. I really doubt Jandar (or anyone) are going to get these super archers you want with 4 attack and 4 defense.

I disagree because if they felt that an error was made they would revise the unit via an Errata since we have seen them do it before. They point stuff based on what is out currently and the knowledge of what is coming out in the future. The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous (a 6 dice special attack is huge especially since most defensive abilities don't work versus special attacks). They are situational and their low defense is a bit of a gamble but I think they are correctly costed. Comparing Zombies to Archers is a bit of a stretch anyway. Range units will usually be more expensive than it appears they should be since they have the possibility to wipe out the zombies before the zombies can even reach them. I originally thought the zombies were too expensive but after seeing them in action...scary...just scary. I also used to think the Roman Archers were a tad too expensive but they do have a normal range attack and the awesome 6 dice special so it seems balanced.

Newb.

[Mooseman]

The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous


And on flat ground, the archers can be horrendous to. :wink:

[LongHeroscaper]

And on flat ground, the archers can be horrendous to. :wink:

Just want to congratulate you for your new title (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=424520#455269) (scroll down a few posts) :lol: It's a good, funny one (the admins did a good job on this one :) )

[The Super Atheist]

Honestly, the zombies can be easily elimated. four move. come on people.

Zombies are so slow you can WALK faster then them. all you need is range OR a squad capable of not being zombyfied. Microcorp? Airborne? maybe some samurai riflemen or 4th mass.? It's not that hard to WALK away.


Honestly, the worst thing you could when fighting zombies is see them as more than a threat then they truly are. just stay away from small close areas, like bulidings, ruins, glaciers, or other places ripe with ambush.

IF YOU WANT A SUPER-RANGE FORCE PURCHASE 3 PACKS OF MICROCORP. I can't wait to completely devastate with them. They have lots of staying power, good movement, AND have high attack on height.

[LilNewbie]

Like most units in the game, it really depends on the particular map and units they are facing. The zombies can get crushed on a map with a lot of open ground and shooty opponents. The zombies can be very effective on a map with decent amount of cover and facing most units.

Newb.

[The Super Atheist]

Seeing 360 points of zombies destroyed by 210 points of Braxas is not pretty. I speak from experience. NEVER underestimate a first time player with Braxas, ever.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

And on flat ground, the archers can be horrendous to. :wink:

Just want to congratulate you for your new title (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=424520#455269) (scroll down a few posts) :lol: It's a good, funny one (the admins did a good job on this one :) )
:D
I complained about that hair on several occasions, but Mooseman acted and did something about it! *
He deserves a title.

* And Dnutt uploaded the image too!

[DeadZa]

I disagree because if they felt that an error was made they would revise the unit via an Errata since we have seen them do it before. They point stuff based on what is out currently and the knowledge of what is coming out in the future. The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous (a 6 dice special attack is huge especially since most defensive abilities don't work versus special attacks). They are situational and their low defense is a bit of a gamble but I think they are correctly costed. Comparing Zombies to Archers is a bit of a stretch anyway. Range units will usually be more expensive than it appears they should be since they have the possibility to wipe out the zombies before the zombies can even reach them. I originally thought the zombies were too expensive but after seeing them in action...scary...just scary. I also used to think the Roman Archers were a tad too expensive but they do have a normal range attack and the awesome 6 dice special so it seems balanced.

Newb.

Who on earth have they changed? Besides of course the Templar Knights are in fact Jandar as a clarification.

[LilNewbie]

I disagree because if they felt that an error was made they would revise the unit via an Errata since we have seen them do it before. They point stuff based on what is out currently and the knowledge of what is coming out in the future. The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous (a 6 dice special attack is huge especially since most defensive abilities don't work versus special attacks). They are situational and their low defense is a bit of a gamble but I think they are correctly costed. Comparing Zombies to Archers is a bit of a stretch anyway. Range units will usually be more expensive than it appears they should be since they have the possibility to wipe out the zombies before the zombies can even reach them. I originally thought the zombies were too expensive but after seeing them in action...scary...just scary. I also used to think the Roman Archers were a tad too expensive but they do have a normal range attack and the awesome 6 dice special so it seems balanced.

Newb.

Who on earth have they changed? Besides of course the Templar Knights are in fact Jandar as a clarification.

1. Taelord has Stealth Flying but it's not on the original card.

2. Deathreavers went through a big change and a new card to allow their scatter to work when attacked by enemy figures only.

3. Sentinels of Jandar are height 6 instead of 5 on some of the older cards.

4. The Templar Knights per the issue mentioned above.

Newb.

[DeadZa]

I disagree because if they felt that an error was made they would revise the unit via an Errata since we have seen them do it before. They point stuff based on what is out currently and the knowledge of what is coming out in the future. The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous (a 6 dice special attack is huge especially since most defensive abilities don't work versus special attacks). They are situational and their low defense is a bit of a gamble but I think they are correctly costed. Comparing Zombies to Archers is a bit of a stretch anyway. Range units will usually be more expensive than it appears they should be since they have the possibility to wipe out the zombies before the zombies can even reach them. I originally thought the zombies were too expensive but after seeing them in action...scary...just scary. I also used to think the Roman Archers were a tad too expensive but they do have a normal range attack and the awesome 6 dice special so it seems balanced.

Newb.

Who on earth have they changed? Besides of course the Templar Knights are in fact Jandar as a clarification.

1. Taelord has Stealth Flying but it's not on the original card.

2. Deathreavers went through a big change and a new card to allow their scatter to work when attacked by enemy figures only.

3. Sentinels of Jandar are height 6 instead of 5 on some of the older cards.

4. The Templar Knights per the issue mentioned above.

Newb.

Ah, well this is all clarifications. Nobody is changed (such as stats or powers) just more fully explained to work as written. It’s too bad they won’t change a few units though. But that’s the nature of the beast.

[blitz]

I held back on playing RomArcs for awhile because a single squad is too situational for a support unit, IMO. I prefer the SamArcs in that situation because of the counterstrike. A single archer squad is too easily caught and overrun and C.S. helps with that a fair bit, even if it's not too reliable.

But with two squads, RomArcs are a much better deal. RomArc squads can support each other against most foes effectively and can play merry havoc when behind a stong defensive line. If I have the points to spare, I will use one SamArc squad for supporting an advance and use a RomArc squad for strikes against key enemy heroes and for air-defense. Legio IX Draco Vescori (9th Legion; Dragon Eaters).

Zombies... yeah, it's not really practical to compare achers and zombies. There are way too many tactical differences to get a good comparison. As a rule, when your line gets punched, anything behind it is in trouble regardless of unit type.

[LilNewbie]

I disagree because if they felt that an error was made they would revise the unit via an Errata since we have seen them do it before. They point stuff based on what is out currently and the knowledge of what is coming out in the future. The Roman Archers on the castle wall can be horrendous (a 6 dice special attack is huge especially since most defensive abilities don't work versus special attacks). They are situational and their low defense is a bit of a gamble but I think they are correctly costed. Comparing Zombies to Archers is a bit of a stretch anyway. Range units will usually be more expensive than it appears they should be since they have the possibility to wipe out the zombies before the zombies can even reach them. I originally thought the zombies were too expensive but after seeing them in action...scary...just scary. I also used to think the Roman Archers were a tad too expensive but they do have a normal range attack and the awesome 6 dice special so it seems balanced.

Newb.

Who on earth have they changed? Besides of course the Templar Knights are in fact Jandar as a clarification.

1. Taelord has Stealth Flying but it's not on the original card.

2. Deathreavers went through a big change and a new card to allow their scatter to work when attacked by enemy figures only.

3. Sentinels of Jandar are height 6 instead of 5 on some of the older cards.

4. The Templar Knights per the issue mentioned above.

Newb.

Ah, well this is all clarifications. Nobody is changed (such as stats or powers) just more fully explained to work as written. It’s too bad they won’t change a few units though. But that’s the nature of the beast.

I would consider numbers 1 and 2 big changes (especially the change to the Deathreavers ). I seriously doubt they will repoint units unless it was a typographical error. I agree it's the nature of the beast and I'm glad they add units that are fun and not just competitive. I get enough of that with the CMGs I play. ;)

Newb.

[pinche_guey]

Once again worth noting.

Taelord has disengage plus flying, not stealth flying. He can walk away unscathed as easily as he can fly away without disengagement strikes.

[LilNewbie]

Actually they clarified that he has Stealth Flying and not Disengage in the Official FAQ:

Why is Taelord’s Flying Special Power missing the last line that all other Flyers have: “When this figure starts to fly, if this figure is engaged, he/she will take any leaving engagement attacks”?We removed the last line of his flying ability to reflect that Taelord has Stealth Flying & will not take any leaving engagement attacks when flying.

Newb.

[killercactus]

Honestly, the zombies can be easily elimated. four move. come on people.

Zombies are so slow you can WALK faster then them. all you need is range OR a squad capable of not being zombyfied. Microcorp? Airborne? maybe some samurai riflemen or 4th mass.? It's not that hard to WALK away.



Do not underestimate the movement of the Zombies. Sure, they only have 4 move, but you get to move 6 at a time. That means that if I move 6 of them up 4 hexes and you shoot down 3, on my next turn I move the other 3 again, AND reinforce them with some from behind. That means that 3 of those zombies have just closed 8 spaces on your ranged figures. That's pretty solid. If those were order markers 2 and 3, and they win initiative, your ranged units might just be rising again as the Zombies you shot down last round....

[blitz]

That's a crappy way to define an ability. The over-rule stands that you have what the card says you have, not what it doesn't say. With as many flying units as there were at the time Taelord came out, they really should have mentioned the difference on the card.

I see nothing on my cards about Disengage. I also checked the scan in the gallery, no Disengage mentioned.

[AmishBurrito]

That's a crappy way to define an ability. The over-rule stands that you have what the card says you have, not what it doesn't say. With as many flying units as there were at the time Taelord came out, they really should have mentioned the difference on the card.

I see nothing on my cards about Disengage. I also checked the scan in the gallery, no Disengage mentioned.

Yes, you are right. They made a mistake when printing his flying ability, and after realizing that he costs way too much, decided to give him stealth flying to try to make up a little bit of his point cost.

[Taeblewalker]

That's a crappy way to define an ability. The over-rule stands that you have what the card says you have, not what it doesn't say. With as many flying units as there were at the time Taelord came out, they really should have mentioned the difference on the card.

I see nothing on my cards about Disengage. I also checked the scan in the gallery, no Disengage mentioned.

Yes, you are right. They made a mistake when printing his flying ability, and after realizing that he costs way too much, decided to give him stealth flying to try to make up a little bit of his point cost.

You dare doubt the integrity of Craig?

:wink:

[blitz]

You dare doubt the integrity of Craig?

:wink:

Hmmm... I smell trap.
:boring:

[Roufus]

As far as the Jandar archers go, I was holding out for some english longbowmen to compliment the knights theme he has going. No 4 defense though...

And yea, I agree that the orcs need a heartier ranged squad as well. Though I was hoping 'some fool gave em guns!' That would be interesting. And why not?

Also, people have been salivating for a snake based ranged squad as well.

[Taeblewalker]

As far as the Jandar archers go, I was holding out for some english longbowmen to compliment the knights theme he has going. No 4 defense though...

And yea, I agree that the orcs need a heartier ranged squad as well. Though I was hoping 'some fool gave em guns!' That would be interesting. And why not?

Also, people have been salivating for a snake based ranged squad as well.

Longbowmen sound really cool.