The TNT Book of Superman (IAmBatman)

[IAmBatman]

The TNT Book of Superman
Here's the link to Superman's TNT Trial: Superman's Trial (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10447)

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/IBeBats/Man%20of%20Steel%20Master%20Set/SupermanTNT2.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/IBeBats/SupermanTNT.jpg

_________________________________________________________________
-Rulings and Clarifications-

TBA


_________________________________________________________________
-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
Marvel+other TNTs:


N/A

Classic:

N/A



Synergy Benefits Offered
Marvel+other TNTs:

N/A


Classic:

4th Massachusetts Line Valiant Bonus.


_________________________________________________________________
-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

TBA[/quote]

[IAmBatman]

Are we only noting synergy with other Marvel figures and other TNT customs in here? Because Superman has some mad crossover synergies with classic 'Scape - including decreased vulnerability to a large list of powers (insta killers, etc), certain size restrictions when it comes to Super Breath, squad advantage on Heat Vision, and the Valiant bonus to offer the 4th Mass.

[rdhight]

Are we only noting synergy with other Marvel figures and other TNT customs in here? Because Superman has some mad crossover synergies with classic 'Scape - including decreased vulnerability to a large list of powers (insta killers, etc), certain size restrictions when it comes to Super Breath, squad advantage on Heat Vision, and the Valiant bonus to offer the 4th Mass.

Valiant bonus should go in, I think. But the books don't really have lists of, for instance, every large and huge figure in the Book of DED because Ullar Rifle won't hit them. "Synergy" means two units helping each other. A limitation on who your attacks can hit doesn't really qualify most of the time. So I'd just go with a mention of Valiant and leave it at that.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds good.

[jay13x]

Don't forget:

X-Ray Vision:
Kryptonians always have a clear line of sight.

(My Version of Heat Vision)
Heat Vision Special Attack:
Range 6 Attack 1
Pick a target in a straight line from Superman. Heat Vision deals damage unblockable damage equal to the number of skulls rolled to all figures along that line.

and I think Invulnerability is a bit much considering his stats are already so high.

[IAmBatman]

You're welcome to start your own customs thread and post your own version of Superman. In fact, I encourage it, since it seems to be quite different from mine.
TNTed units are typically considered "finished" products.

[GreyOwl]

You may also want to go back and read the trial thread. Some of your ideas were already discussed and tried, but later removed for various reasons. That doesn't those ideas would never work on another custom, just that they didn't fit this custom specifically.

[RickyDMMontoya]

I think he is far too powerful, and I really don't know how he got TNT.

8 Speed Flying makes him one of the fastest figures in the game.

7 Defence and 8 life makes him one of the most resilient.

The -1 to enemy D20 attacks combined with the regular resilience is frankly bamboozling.

Heat Vision is one of the best non-Q9 Special attacks in the game.

Super Breath lets him push enemies away (and can potentially remove order markers :roll:) .

That really cuts down on the effective methods of dealing with him, as he has an answer for EVERYTHING. Even the other Marvel Heroes aren't as powerful in every single aspect of the game.

It doesn't make sense that he hits as hard as Abomination in HTH, has a ranged attack, is practically immune to the instant death abilities (one of the key factors in keeping the other heroes in line), is almost as fast as Silver Surfer, gets the breath attack and on top of all that, to add insult to injury, is valiant.

I know it's too late, but I really think the judges dropped the ball on this guy.

[CStrife07]

Did you realize that he is 380 points? Not to mention Hulk has 2 less attack, 1 less defense, same life, lower move (can be raised at expense of attack) and the same range, however Hulk's attack peaks at 11 (3 higher than Superman). He has been playtested very rigourosly and is not too overpowered for his point cost, matter of fact he can still be insta-killed, he just has less of a chance.

[johnny139]

He's strong, without a doubt, but I playtested him - as long as you have the right team against him, he'll go down easy. You need to swarm him with multi-attacks - he can only fight back against one or two people at a time.

[NecroBlade]

matter of fact he can still be insta-killed, he just has less of a chance.Against most abilities. Hello Rechets. :twisted:

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Being someone that playtested Superman as well, I think he is very thematic and appropriate.

It is obviousl that you haven't used him in a game RickyDMMontoya. I think it is way out of line to say anyone 'dropped the ball' when you obviously haven't even used him.

Besides the fact that he should be one of the most powerful characters as he is Superman. The points reflect the abilities. If you have half a game about you, you can defeat him my friend.

Sorry, but you're out of line.

Ben.

[RickyDMMontoya]

Abomination is 70 points less.

For that 70 points, Supes gets:
Flying and +3 move (but loses the Super Leap)
Ranged Special Attack but loses Stomp Attack
Super Breath
+1 Attack and +1 Defence
near immunity to D20 attacks

It's that Superman is so versatile. He is strong from range, he is strong when swarmed, his stats are incredible, he can fly 8 spaces. None of the other Hero characters are so good at everything. Yes it's Superman :roll:, but at least price him accordingly.

He makes the other heroes look like jokes. You would be a fool to take the Hulk if Superman was available, he's just a little bit better at everything, for 10 points more. That's sick.

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Here's the problem with your argument:
Super-Man has NO ATTACK THAT HITS MULTIPLE SQUAD FIGURES. He might last a while, but that's moot if he's constantly getting shot at and you can't do anything about it. At least the Hulk has a chance by using Stomp. Super-Man can't do anything at all against a swarm of squads.
Super Leap is better than flying by far. It has 2 higher move, and you actually WANT to take the disengagement attack with the Hulk since it can wound him.
Sure, he has a ranged special attack, but it's at range 6. He'll be caught eventually, and then he's in trouble.
He might have Attack 8, but the Hulk's is higher than him at a paltry 3 wounds. His defense of 7 is equal to the Silver Surfer's but without the ability to run away like a coward after attacking, reducing survivability.
He doesn't have "near immunity" at all. His chances of getting Stoned or Acided is 15%, which is still high. It's not like he's going to kill Braxas in one hit or anything. His ability to get owned by Retchets is alarming. Grimnak can wipe the floor with Superman by using a Grut shield.
Superman specializes in one on one, but more so than any of the other heroes, he's incredibly vulnerable to squads.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

What Bloody the Marro Stinger said :wink:

[IAmBatman]

You would be a fool to take the Hulk if Superman was available, he's just a little bit better at everything, for 10 points more. That's sick.

Why's that when Hulk more often than not hands Superman's head to him for 10 points less? If you don't believe me, feel free to playtest it yourself (I'm of the opinion that you probably haven't played this figure and are just looking at stats). I'd say he's worth his points but too often falls very easily, and thus isn't worth a point more. But, hey, I'm biased, obviously.
Long story short, though, if ya don't like him, don't play him.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

It's quite clear he's just looking at the card.

[RickyDMMontoya]

I would say that Super Breath + 1 regular attack is better crowd control than stomp.

Also, I wasn't comparing him to the Hulk, I was comparing him to Abomination. Additionally, I wasn't comparing them in a one on one knockdown, but rather comparing the versatility of the two characters. Superman may be (marginally) worse against another ~350+ character, but he can do many more things and is useful in many more ways than Silver Surfer, or the Hulk or Abomination.

[IAmBatman]

I would say that Super Breath + 1 regular attack is better crowd control than stomp.

So, if you're swarmed by 6 Marro Drones, for instance, you'd rather be able to push one of them back 2 to 4 spaces, and attack (likely killing) one with an attack of 8, than to be able to attack all of them with 3 attack dice, which is statistically high enough to kill all of them?
It might be better crowd control against high defense heroes, but high defense heroes aren't really known as "swarmers". In that case, Supes has a chance of removing some order markers, which can benefit him, and his high attack comes into play.
When you're swarmed by a bunch of 0 defense Venocs, I'd argue that 8 attack is major overkill, and I'd much rather be able to attack them ALL with 3 attack dice than one of them with 8, giving them additional turns and attacks and chances at frenzy. I would say that Superman has a much greater chance of being taken down by a squad of Venocs than Hulk, who can basically stomp them all in a single turn with ease.

Also, I wasn't comparing him to the Hulk, I was comparing him to Abomination.

You asked why you would ever draft Hulk when Superman was available. I think that more than opened the door to comparisons between the two. The fact is also that Abomination's cost is not as close to Superman's as Hulk is, so Hulk makes more sense as a comparison.

[GreyOwl]

I don't see why we're arguing over a stamped TNT custom. It's not as if there can only be one version of Superman with a stamp. RickyDMMontoya, if you want to put in your version of Superman you are free to do so.

[Tiranx]

Thanks for doing this guys. Once I found this on the forums I got a batman figure and I just bought some Superman figures off of Ebay so I can give them out as Christmas presents. I dont think anything is as Sweet Chicken as heroscape and superman, but then there is still lots to come!

[CStrife07]

Okay late question here. Would Supes Invunerability protect him against healing touch and/or selfdestruct?

[CStrife07]

Okay late question here. Would Supes Invunerability protect him against healing touch and/or selfdestruct?

[CStrife07]

Okay late question here. Would Supes Invunerability protect him against healing touch and/or selfdestruct?

[IAmBatman]

Invulnerability COULD be applied to both powers, but since it subtracts from the roll, instead of adding to it, it would be foolish to use it to affect the outcome of a Healing Touch roll (since higher numbers are better for you when you're targeted by Healing Touch). Again, though, this is only if Superman himself would be affected by either power, and it's always optional to apply it.

[peteparkerh]

Spidysox and I playtested a bunch of 400pt Hero Only armies (Marvel and Classic). We also brought in Superman to see if it put it too out of balance.

Superman won every battle against Heroes. We had one case where he got close to dead, but that was about it. We've tried him before with squads, and they can overwhelm him, but against pure Heroes, he seemed a little over balanced.

I love the character, I just don't know if I can open him up to tournaments.