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ArcturusII
September 12th, 2007, 05:08 PM
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Unit Strategy Review
Unit: Ornak
Author: ArcturusII (with special thanks to the other Unit Strategy Reviewers)

Ornak, flag-bearer for the malevolent Utgar, can strike fear into all but the deadliest of armies. While smaller and softer than some of the other flagbearers, Ornak can foster cohesion in your army using his Red Flag of Fury Aura, and can enrage his fellow orcs with his Orc Battle Cry Aura. Because he is a support unit, it can be difficult to field an army that takes full advantage of his abilities. However, with the arrival of Wave 7 and the trend towards larger armies, Ornak can indeed serve as the focal point of a fearsome force.

Let’s take a look at Ornak's stats:

Analyzed Statistics
Cost - 100 – Knight Class Unit
Size - Medium - Vulnerable/Semi-Concealable
Life - 4 – Below Average
Move - 6 - Fast
Range - 1 - Close Range
Attack - 3 - Average
Defense - 3 - Vulnerable
Red Flag of Fury Aura - Take a turn with two heroes within 8 clear spaces instead of Ornak - High Tactical Advantage
Orc Battle Cry Aura - Roll Utgar Valkyrie Dice on any attack by Orc Warriors within 2 clear spaces; Utgar symbols count as skulls - Moderate Tactical Advantage

In-Depth Analysis

Below is an explanation of Agatagary's cost classification:

Pawn class (expendable, units that can be useful, but are not worth enormous trouble to protect)
Bishop class (more useful than a pawn, but still somewhat expendable)
Knight class (units that are interestingly powerful and can have a significant impact on the game in of themselves. It is advisable that they be kept alive, but if absolutely necessary they may be sacrificed)
Rook class (units that almost inevitably have a significant impact on the game, and whose death should be avoided as much as possible)
Queen class (devastatingly powerful or important units that should be protected at all costs)

Class:
Ornak is a Knight class unit. His core stats give him mediocre attacking ability, but his exceptional Auras and extra attacks through Orc Champion Bonding make him an excellent support figure. His moderate price of 100 points makes him fairly easy to field, and his loss, while inconvenient, would not devastate your army.

Offense:
With a Threat Range of 7 (move 6 + range 1) and an Attack of 3, Ornak's offensive ability is mediocre. However, Ornak's value doesn't come from his core stats; instead, it is his support abilities that are the threat. Because he is an Orc Champion, he can benefit from the Orc Champion Bonding ability of the Blade Gruts and Heavy Gruts, which grants him a free turn. Also, Orc Warriors within 2 spaces of Ornak receive the Orc Battle Cry Aura, improving their attack potential, and Unique Utgar Heroes within 8 spaces of Ornak can benefit from his Red Flag of Fury Aura, granting you the flexibility of unit selection and gaining an extra turn on the first turn marker.

Survivability:
Ornak is somewhat delicate, with a Defense of 3 and a Life of 4. Some care must be exercised to keep him alive during the early rounds of a battle, when his auras are most effective. Generally, it is best to keep him about 8 spaces from the main battle early on, when you still have multiple heroes that can benefit from his Red Flag of Fury Aura. Don't expose Ornak to too much ranged fire early in the battle, or you'll end up with one very dead flagbearer.

Ornak is a Medium figure, making him vulnerable to attacks that affect Medium figures, but also allowing him to benefit from a reasonably small hit zone, as well as abilities that work with Medium figures, like Brunak's Carry. Ornak is also vulnerable to certain instant kill or line of sight abilities due to his size and high visibility. Remember Ornak's flag, though not a hit zone, is used for clear sight determination.

Strategy:
Ornak's primary role in any army would be that of a support unit. Therefore we will first review his abilities and bonding capabilities that make him a support unit. Then we will discuss strategies to best utilize Ornak .

Red Flag of Fury Aura:
The Red Flag of Fury Aura gives you incredible flexibility on the first turn of every round, and is the primary reason to draft Ornak. Its range of 8 clear sight spaces is quite large, giving plenty of maneuvering room for your Unique Utgar heroes. Since you can only use it on the first turn of each round, it makes sense to place either marker 2 or 3 on your Orc Warriors, so you can advance Ornak in preparation for the next round.

There are many strategies for choosing Unique Utgar Heroes to round out your army, but typically you will want to draft heroes that complement your Orc Warriors or cover their weaknesses. For example, because Orc Warriors and Champions are all melee units, your army is likely to need ranged support, or units that can counter your opponent's ranged units.

Generally, you'll want to have 3 Unique Utgar Heroes in your army, in addition to Ornak (for a total of 4). This will give your Red Flag of Fury Aura plenty of flexibility, and will allow you to use it even after losing one of your heroes.

Let's examine various Unique Utgar Heroes, and how they would fit in an Orc Warrior army:

Grimnak, Tornak, Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider - These are natural companions to Ornak, because they are Orc Champions who also bond to your Orc Warriors. Usually, you will be activating these figures from Orc Champion Bonding rather than Ornak's Red Flag of Fury, but having this extra option gives you more flexibility when placing Order Markers. Because these figures all grant defensive bonuses to your orcs, it is usually better to charge with these figures before bringing in Ornak, so that your Orc Warriors can better survive early ranged attacks.

Marcu Esenwein - A perfect fit for Ornak. Marcu's 20-point cost makes him easy to fill out your Utgar hero quota, plus the Red Flag of Fury allows you to move Marcu without rolling for Eternal Hatred. It's really hard to go wrong with this figure. If you plan to put order markers 2 or 3 on Marcu, consider flying him deep into enemy territory, preferably your opponent's starting area. That way, if you DO get bitten by Eternal Hatred, your opponent won't be able to attack any of your figures.

Isamu - Also great for Ornak, due to his 10-point "filler" cost. Also, if you end up losing initiative and Isamu on Turn 1, you can use Red Flag of Fury to activate someone else instead.

Deathwalker 7000, 8000, and 9000 - Thematically, the Deathwalkers match up well with the Orcs. It seems fitting that the orcs' idea of "ranged support" consists of an unreliable hunk of metal that SEEMS like an invincible death machine but can mysteriously fail at any moment. Deathwalkers are great for breaking up ranged squads, due to their special abilities and high defense scores. Click on the Strategy Guide link for the Deathwalker 7000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10600) or 9000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11387) to get even more ideas.

Brunak - Brunak's Carry ability opens up numerous combinatorial possiblities. My favorites are combining him with either Deathwalker 7000 or Kee-Mo-Shi, but you can also do well carrying one of the Vampires, Ne-Gok-Sa, or even Ornak himself. Brunak is also a fairly tough combatant in his own right, with attack 4, defense 7, and his Blood Hungry Special Attack. Click on the Strategy Guide to Brunak (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11715) for more information.

Mimring, Mi-Burq-Sa - Like the Deathwalkers, these figures add much-needed ranged support to your army. While they are softer than those hunks of metal, they are faster as well, making them a little more flexible. They also have the benefit of being bonded to other squads, so if you don't mind the extra cost, take along some Arrow Gruts or Roman Legionnaires.

Su-Bak-Na, Tor-Kul-Na, Krug, Cyprien Esenwein - These heavy-hitting melee units let you lead with a strong punch on Turn 1, and follow up turns 2 and 3 with more heavy hitting. Once you commit one of these figures to the fight, you will not want to split up your turn markers and leave these figures vulnerable. Su-Bak-Na, Tor-Kul-Na, and Krug are all fine counters to Major Q9, plus you can bring along other squads that bond to them if you care to.

Ne-Gok-Sa, Kee-Mo-Shi, Warden 816, Iskra Esenwein (with the Rechets of Bogdan), Sir Hawthorne - These figures bring extra melee support to your Gruts, and can serve to soften up your opponent before bringing in your orcs. They are also small enough to be carried by Brunak, and so give you the option of a long-range surprise attack.

Sonya Esenwein, Khosumet, Taelord, Runa - These are generally poor choices for an Orc Warrior themed army, though Sonya could be useful if paired up with Cyprien. Khosumet, Taelord, and Runa are all designed to be used with other melee squads, which creates redundancy with your Orc Warriors.

Orc Battle Cry Aura:
This ability boosts the attacks of each Orc Warrior within 2 clear sight spaces of Ornak by 33% (since each attack die now has 4 faces that produce a hit instead of 3). The Heavy Gruts gain a larger benefit from this aura than the Blade Gruts, since they have a higher Attack rating. The range of 2 clear sight spaces also makes this bonus easier to use in battle than the Orc Warrior Enhancement granted by Tornak or Grimnak.

Orc Champion Bonding:
As an Orc Champion, Ornak can get free turns from the Orc Champion Bonding ability of Blade Gruts and Heavy Gruts. Also note that these figures are Orc Warriors, and so benefit from the Ornak's Orc Battle Cry Aura. Because of these synergies, you will want to draft Ornak alongside 2 or more squads of either the Heavies or the Blades. As mentioned earlier, Ornak's attack is not very powerful on his own. While a single attack of 3 dice is certainly useful, the main reason to move Ornak is so that his Auras can cover different parts of the battlefield. For example, if some of your Unique Utgar Heroes have strayed outside of your Red Flag of Fury Aura's influence, you will want to move Ornak to cover them.

Tactics:
Due to Ornak's Red Flag of Fury Aura, you will want to keep Ornak alive during the early rounds of a battle, to maintain the greatest flexibility between all of your Unique Utgar Heroes. If the map is large, you can keep your army moving as a cohesive whole by activating Ornak on Turn 1, then moving your Orc Warriors (with bonding) on Turns 2 and 3. This way, when you make contact with your enemy, you will have the resources of your entire army to draw upon.

If your opponent brought ranged squads that may pose problems for your orcs, then use anti-range heroes to break them up before you begin your melee charge. High Defense heroes like Deathwalker 9000 or Ne-Gok-Sa can also march in and engage several units, tying up their attacks long enough for you to swarm in with your Gruts.

Once you have eliminated or diverted the first ranged threat, charge in with bonded Orc Warriors and an Orc Champion like Grimnak or Tornak. If your opponent lacks explosion attacks, keep all of your warriors adjacent to your champion, as his defense bonus will help keep your Orc Warriors alive long enough to get engaged with the enemy. Hopefully, you will be able to swarm all over your opponent's position with your Gruts. This will also keep Ornak safe, since engaged enemy units won't be able to target your tender flagbearer.

Later in the battle, after the first wave of heroes have died, charge Ornak into the fray and take the bonus from the Orc Battle Cry Aura. By this time, you will probably be near the end stages of the battle, either cleaning up your last remaining enemies or being cleaned up yourself.

Once you decide to commit Ornak to the melee, the trick to keeping him alive is keeping all hostile ranged figures engaged with your own figures, so that those ranged figures cannot focus fire on Ornak. This shouldn't be too hard, considering the fact that all Orc Warriors have the Disengage ability.

Orc Warrior armies can be tough to play, since a premature charge can leave you helpless as ranged squads cut you to ribbons; however, when the time is ripe, you must attack boldly, and trust the dice gods to pull you through.

Additional Strategies:
Special Delivery:
This requies Ornak, Brunak, and a Unique Utgar Hero of Medium size, preferably one who can attack more than one figure at a time, like Kee-Mo-Shi, Deathwalker 7000, or Cyprien Esenwein. Activate Brunak using the Red Flag of Fury Aura, and Brunak's Carry ability to place your second hero adjacent to Brunak. Then, activate the hero you just carried! Use this tactic to place dangerous figures deep into enemy territory.

Retchet Fling:
This requires Ornak, Brunak, Iskra Esenwein, and the Rechets of Bogdan. Using the Special Delivery tactic, above, move Iskra Esenwein 14 spaces away from Ornak's position. Then, roll to summon the Rechets of Bogdan. If successful, you will be able to place the Rechets 6 spaces away from Iskra, THEN move them an additional 6 spaces from their summoned position, for a total of 26 spaces from Ornak's position!

Ghosts' Gambit:
If you are playing a draft game, and an opponent has drafted Unique Utgar Heroes that you want in your army, consider drafting one or more squads of the Shades of Bleakewoode. Their Soul Devour ability may give you your coveted hero after all!

Units to Avoid:
Units with multiple ranged attacks are the biggest threat to any army based around Ornak. This includes fast long-range squads like the Krav Maga Agents, common squads like the 4th Massacheusetts Line and Aubrien Archers, and squad-busting heroes like Nilfheim and Major Q9. Major Q9 is a particularly obnoxious threat due to his high defense and his deadly Queglix Gun Special Attack. Because of these threats, it is important to bring along heroes that can deal with these units.

While Ornak can keep himself relatively safe by staying back from the main action and relying on Orc Warrior engagement to deflect attacks, he is still vulnerable to assassin-type units with Disengage, Ghost Walk, and/or Stealth Flying. Beware Agent Carr, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Cyprien Esenwein, Shades of Bleakwoode, Einar Imperium, and other Orc Warrior based armies.

For additional information see the Book of Ornak (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8421)

Bloody the Marro Stinger
September 12th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Interesting article. There's a problem though. Is this assuming 500 point armies? If it is, here's what we have using some suggestions...
Ornak
Grimnak
Ne-Gok-Sa
Nerak
Blade Grutsx3
Marcu
Wait... that's actually a (fairly) good army. Sadly, this doesn't spark a lot of things I didn't know before like the Dund article and DW7000 article did.

The Super Atheist
September 12th, 2007, 05:36 PM
I use Ornak anyways so I didn't learn anything... BUT it was an interesting read.

Taeblewalker
September 12th, 2007, 11:34 PM
I found some of the additional strategies nice. The way Arc handles the options for Red Flag of Fury Aura encourage deep tatical thinking, beyond merely sending out powerhouses and hoping for the best.

ares834
September 12th, 2007, 11:42 PM
I often use him to move swog riders into position.

Bloody the Marro Stinger
September 13th, 2007, 12:17 AM
I often use him to move swog riders into position.
Ornak can take turns with unique heroes only.
Try again.

ProfessorDocker
September 13th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Ornak combined with Deathwalkers 8000 and 9000 sounds pretty deadly. But I don't have Ornak, so I wouldn't know.

!Docker

Snotwalker 8000
September 13th, 2007, 10:57 AM
Overall, nice job.

I'm looking forward to trying out Ornak in several battles over the next week for the first time. Right now I'm trying to think of good army compositions using him in the 500/530 point range. I don't believe that Ornak could really be used in smaller battles of 400/450 pts, but there do appear to be some solid builds once you hit that magic number of 500.

And I'm also torn right now as to whether he really shines in pure Orc armies (including Krug/Mimring as natural co-horts, of course), or if Ornak is best suited to help rally other Utgar forces, like the Marro, the Deathwalkers, or the vampires. Or some variety combo.

I just forsee being able to activate/attack with, in one turn, both DW8K and Mimring, or Krug and MBS, or Brunak and NGS, etc... as being VERY powerful, even if only once per round. But what combo works best, and with what supporting units & backup heros in reserve is yet to be determined... Oh well, it'll be fun to try out different combos to see what works and what doesn't.

Any tips on good 500-530pt army builds around Ornak?

ArcturusII
September 13th, 2007, 11:16 AM
"The Orcish Battle-Bot"
100 Ornak
120 Grimnak
120 Blade Gruts x3
140 Deathwalker 9000
020 Marcu Esenwein
500 TOTAL

Here's my "standard" 500-pt army using Ornak. This army is probably the simplest execution of the strategies from the guide. Activate DW9K and Marcu with your Red Flag of Fury to break up ranged squads, then charge in with the Blades and Grimnak, then clean up with Ornak once Grimnak falls. Also, don't be afraid to put extra turn markers on DW9K and Marcu if the situation warrants it.

"Bone it up!"
100 Ornak
100 Tornak
160 Su-Bak-Na
020 Marcu Esenwein
120 Blade Gruts x3
500 TOTAL

A basic "Anti-Q9" build, that relies on Su-Bak-Na to take out the Major (or any other high-defense figures). Ranged squads will be a problem for this army, but you might be able to overwhelm them with Marcu, Tornak, and a swarm of Gruts.
------
With 400 points, your options are more limited, but here's a fun all-melee army:

"For the Horde!"
100 Ornak
120 Grimnak
160 Blade Gruts x4
020 Marcu Esenwein
400 TOTAL

This army is built around an endless charge of Blade Gruts. However, without any ranged squad deterrent heroes, expect heavy casualties. Yarr!

jcb231
September 13th, 2007, 11:44 AM
When I'm on the offensive, I like using him to activate any heroes that can hit multiple targets....Mimring, DW9K, 7K, 8K, Cyprien, Iskra (with Rechets), Kee-Mo-Shi, Tor-Kul-Na, Grimnak, etc.

Taeblewalker
September 13th, 2007, 01:17 PM
Overall, nice job.

I'm looking forward to trying out Ornak in several battles over the next week for the first time. Right now I'm trying to think of good army compositions using him in the 500/530 point range. I don't believe that Ornak could really be used in smaller battles of 400/450 pts, but there do appear to be some solid builds once you hit that magic number of 500.

And I'm also torn right now as to whether he really shines in pure Orc armies (including Krug/Mimring as natural co-horts, of course), or if Ornak is best suited to help rally other Utgar forces, like the Marro, the Deathwalkers, or the vampires. Or some variety combo.

I just forsee being able to activate/attack with, in one turn, both DW8K and Mimring, or Krug and MBS, or Brunak and NGS, etc... as being VERY powerful, even if only once per round. But what combo works best, and with what supporting units & backup heros in reserve is yet to be determined... Oh well, it'll be fun to try out different combos to see what works and what doesn't.

Any tips on good 500-530pt army builds around Ornak?

You inspire me to do a thought experiment of a 260 point Ornak army.

Ornak 100
Me-Qurq-Sa 50
Isamu 10
Iskra Eisenwein 50
Rechets of Bogden 50

As for your 500-530 point build, I suggest:

Ornak 100
Blade Gruts x2 plus Isamu 90 OR x3 without Isamu 120
Tornak 100
Iskra Eiswenwein and Rechest of Bogden 100
Brunak 110 (for clearing the way and carrying Ornak if necessary)

The Blade Gruts option gives you either 500 or 530 points.

killercactus
September 13th, 2007, 02:32 PM
I'm a big fan of this Ornak army:

Ornak - 100
Brunak - 110
Blade Gruts - 40
Cyprien Esenwein - 150
Sonya Esenwein - 45

Total = 495

This is a "slingshot Cyprien" army to see how much damage he can do. Once he's gone, Brunak attacks. Ornak and his Gruts get cleanup duty once all the Utgar heroes are dead. For 530, add Marcu and Isamu for more Ornak pleasure.

Ornak - 100
Deathwalker 9000 - 140
Deathwalker 8000 - 130
Deathwalker 7000 - 100
Marcu Esenwein - 20
Isamu - 10

Now, what you do with this army is..... have a lot of fun, but probably get killed.

Ornak - 100
Grinnak - 120
Heavy Gruts x2 - 140
Warden 816 - 90
Marro Warriors - 50

Total - 500

Ornak can use the red flag here to activate Chompy and the Warden, but the meat of the army is the Orcs. Let Chompy and his gang soften the opponent up and then Ornak and his heavy-hitting Orcs come in for the kill. I've had a lot of fun with this one.

Jexik
September 13th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Ornak is quite possibly one of the best ways to solve order marker problems in large (600-1500 point) armies.

Also, being able to use any two of the following: Krug, Mimring, Cyprien, or a DW at once could allow for a lot of interesting choices.

If only it worked for Common Heroes too, then I might actually find a use for the Dumutefs.

Remember that he can move Khosumet or Taelord too. Imagine moving both of them forward and then unleashing a hellish Minion attack! It might not be the most practical, but if you can be in the effective range of both, and on height, we're talking about 5 super dice!

Ornak
2x Minions
Taelord
Khosumet

Dang, 575 points. Well, really big armies then! Toss in some Anubians...

ArcturusII
September 14th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Ornak - 100
Deathwalker 9000 - 140
Deathwalker 8000 - 130
Deathwalker 7000 - 100
Marcu Esenwein - 20
Isamu - 10

Now, what you do with this army is..... have a lot of fun, but probably get killed.

Wow this army ROXXORZ!! I can't wait to try it! :lol:

Think about it this way: even if DW9K gets popped by an unlucky die roll, you still have TWO MORE DEATHWALKERS to carry on the legacy! Sweet!

Oyhedwig
September 14th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Guys who make these strategy guides: what figures do you classify as higher than knight class? And what are their classes? Perhaps I've missed one but the only ones I've read have been knight class. I'm curious. Who is a queen class figure for example?

Fezzikthedoor
September 14th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Guys who make these strategy guides: what figures do you classify as higher than knight class? And what are their classes? Perhaps I've missed one but the only ones I've read have been knight class. I'm curious. Who is a queen class figure for example?

Well, SBN, for example, is a Rook. Spartacus is a queen (heh heh). Charos and Jotun will probably be classed as one or the other. It just so happens that a lot of the units that are ignored, maligned, and misunderstood happen to be Knights.

Oyhedwig
September 14th, 2007, 02:53 PM
Interesting...I'm curious as to how the Swarm of the Marro heroes will be classified. Thanks, Fezzik. I gotta say, your posts are awesome on here! Also, I use The Princess Bride book and movie with my seventh grade class. Fezzik and Inigo are always crowd pleasers. Sweet name, sweet avatar.

Jexik
September 14th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Guys who make these strategy guides: what figures do you classify as higher than knight class? And what are their classes? Perhaps I've missed one but the only ones I've read have been knight class. I'm curious. Who is a queen class figure for example?

Well, SBN, for example, is a Rook. Spartacus is a queen (heh heh). Charos and Jotun will probably be classed as one or the other. It just so happens that a lot of the units that are ignored, maligned, and misunderstood happen to be Knights.

I noticed that too. Expect to see some in the future that won't necessarily be knights.

;)

that guy
October 10th, 2007, 07:18 PM
310 Point Reach Across The Board Super Move-
Units needed: Ornak, Brunak, Iskra and Rechets.
Turn 1 on Ornak, use Brunak to carry Iskra, use Iskra to fly as far as possible then summon the Rechets. A total reach of about 19 or 20 spaces. Useful in bigger games and relies on a little chance for summoning.

What do you think?

Fezzikthedoor
October 10th, 2007, 11:06 PM
310 Point Reach Across The Board Super Move-
Units needed: Ornak, Brunak, Iskra and Rechets.
Turn 1 on Ornak, use Brunak to carry Iskra, use Iskra to fly as far as possible then summon the Rechets. A total reach of about 19 or 20 spaces. Useful in bigger games and relies on a little chance for summoning.

What do you think?

I think it is good...that's why I put it in the Strategy Guide: How to use Brunak as the "slingshot". :D Check out that guide for even more good ideas!

rai12
October 11th, 2007, 12:47 AM
Nice work on the cross promotion Fezzik.

that guy
October 11th, 2007, 09:49 AM
Sorry, didn't think to look in the Brunak thread. :oops:

Roufus
November 4th, 2007, 08:10 AM
Is it ever prudent to use both blade and heavy gruts in with an orc army? The only builds I've seen has always been one or the other.

Taeblewalker
November 4th, 2007, 11:02 AM
Is it ever prudent to use both blade and heavy gruts in with an orc army? The only builds I've seen has always been one or the other.

That depends on several factors. If you have all the heroes you need, then extra points can be spent on both. The Blade Gruts give you more mobility and double the figures for almost the same cost. The Heavy Gruts are tougher and have greater killing power and staying power, so are better used for a more static game or to bond with slower heroes. Grimnak has the same Move as the Heavy Gruts, while Nerak and Tornak can outrun both types, so the Blade Gruts are better to send forward with them, since they are a little faster.

Bloody the Marro Stinger
November 4th, 2007, 04:19 PM
Is it ever prudent to use both blade and heavy gruts in with an orc army? The only builds I've seen has always been one or the other.

That depends on several factors. If you have all the heroes you need, then extra points can be spent on both. The Blade Gruts give you more mobility and double the figures for almost the same cost. The Heavy Gruts are tougher and have greater killing power and staying power, so are better used for a more static game or to bond with slower heroes. Grimnak has the same Move as the Heavy Gruts, while Nerak and Tornak can outrun both types, so the Blade Gruts are better to send forward with them, since they are a little faster.
In general, though, with the exception of one game I played with myself (In which Tornak and the Blades ALMOST killed a 3xStingers, Marro Hive, 2x Roborats, and Raelin (old) before dying, and the Heavies couldn't save the Orcs, as the Stingers ran all over them.), the Heavies are usually more effective than the Blades. Nerak and Tornak outspeeding them actually helps them, as they can get into posistion faster for the Heavies to support them, and they have enough staying power to last a few turns.

Sisyphus
November 4th, 2007, 05:46 PM
Is it ever prudent to use both blade and heavy gruts in with an orc army? The only builds I've seen has always been one or the other.

That depends on several factors. If you have all the heroes you need, then extra points can be spent on both. The Blade Gruts give you more mobility and double the figures for almost the same cost. The Heavy Gruts are tougher and have greater killing power and staying power, so are better used for a more static game or to bond with slower heroes. Grimnak has the same Move as the Heavy Gruts, while Nerak and Tornak can outrun both types, so the Blade Gruts are better to send forward with them, since they are a little faster.
In general, though, with the exception of one game I played with myself (In which Tornak and the Blades ALMOST killed a 3xStingers, Marro Hive, 2x Roborats, and Raelin (old) before dying, and the Heavies couldn't save the Orcs, as the Stingers ran all over them.), the Heavies are usually more effective than the Blades. Nerak and Tornak outspeeding them actually helps them, as they can get into posistion faster for the Heavies to support them, and they have enough staying power to last a few turns.

Your stinger army looks exactly like the one I took to the Florida tournament if you replace the Hive with the Krav Maga. Orcs were my only worry since they could easily engage my short ranged stingers and my rats couldn't tie them up because of disengage. Fortunately I didn't encounter any orcs that day.

Back to the discussion, I would either only use blades or only use heavies since there is nothing more annoying than having two common squads at half strength.

Roufus
November 4th, 2007, 10:56 PM
I would either only use blades or only use heavies since there is nothing more annoying than having two common squads at half strength.

That's pretty much how I was thinking.

Also, off topic, how's that rock rolling going for ya?

kolakoski
February 4th, 2010, 12:46 PM
I really like Ornak, but it's hard to construct a competitive army at 500 points with him. I'm thinking along these lines . . .

120 Grimnak
100 Ornak
80 Raelin
80 Blades x 2
50 Iskra
50 Reckets
20 Marcu
500

or

100 Ornak
100 Tornak
80 Blades x 2
50 Me-Burq-Sa (or Theracus and Isamu)
50 Nerak
50 Iskra
50 Reckets
20 Marcu
500

Maybe the new Champions of the Forgotten Realm will help.

NecroBlade
February 4th, 2010, 06:40 PM
Don't forget you can use Uncommon Heroes with him, too.

140 Othkurik
180 Feral Troll x2
100 Ornak
080 Blade Gruts x2
500 points, 15 spaces

or swap out the little bit of Range for more consistency with the Orcs:

180 Feral Troll x2
120 Blade Gruts x3
100 Ornak
100 Tornak
500 points, 19 spaces

Either way, healing a wound off each Troll at the start of each round could be fun.

Taeblewalker
February 4th, 2010, 08:21 PM
I'd be curious to see what it's like to have a pair of riding mowers from Wave 11 under his command.

Master of Disaster
March 4th, 2011, 07:30 PM
You know, i like the sounds if this army: Heavy Grutsx3 Grimnak Ornak Nerak Marcu Esenwein Isamu [510 points]. There's a lot of flexibility with this army, multiple attacks per turn, great for glyph grabbing, and real staying power. Its only real weakness is against common squad ranged hordes and Zelrig. Although, i have seen all-melee armies just tank their way through a barrage of common squad fire more than once.

machinekng
March 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM
If this guide is ever updated, it needs to include usage with the Fen Hydra and other Uncommon Utgar Heroes.

Taeblewalker
March 21st, 2011, 07:40 PM
If this guide is ever updated, it needs to include usage with the Fen Hydra and other Uncommon Utgar Heroes.

Agreeed.

nate the dawg
March 22nd, 2011, 02:05 AM
If this guide is ever updated, it needs to include usage with the Fen Hydra and other Uncommon Utgar Heroes.

Agreeed.
Agreement seconded! In reference to the Fen Hydra specifically, I've taken it and Ornak to two tourneys using an Ornak/2xHydra army core (took second in one of them). In the first, I brought Raelin and Kelda, for an eight-headed lawnmower - went 1-2. For NHSD '10 (all heroes/550), I used Ornak, 2xHydra, Krug, and Atlaga and went 3-1, losing in the championship match.

Ornak + Hydrae = Scary.

dok
March 22nd, 2011, 09:48 AM
Ornak + Hydrax2 (plus some stingers) was one of the two Utgar builds that went 4-1 in General Wars at 2010 Gencon. It's definitely a powerful formula.

Taeblewalker
March 22nd, 2011, 10:06 AM
I like Minding and Moltenclaw. I did well (5-1) with Greenscales/ Moltenclaw and Arrow Guts/Mirming on Sunday's Long Island game day.

Son of Arathorn
April 25th, 2011, 05:38 PM
AAAAUUUUGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! Trying to find Ornak on Ebay for less then 40 bucks! I dont suppose anybody's got an extra they'll sell for 30 or less? (bambi eyes) @ @
O

Son of Arathorn
April 25th, 2011, 05:39 PM
typo! typo! the O is supposed to be under the @ @. looks a little like bambi eyes, with some imagination.