Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

[Taeblewalker]

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Unit Strategy Review
Unit: Deathwalker 9000
Author: Taeblewalker (with thanks to my sewing circle)

Ever since the glory days of the first release of Rise of the Valkyrie, Deathwalker 9000 has tromped threateningly across the battlefields of Valhalla. In spite of its Life of 1, players have feared its almost insurmountable Defense of 9 and its deadly Explosion Special Attack. The castle set has only made it more formidable, increasing its defense to god-like levels and raising its normal attack of 4 to new heights.

In spite of this, people are still somewhat leary of using it, especially with so many other units from which to choose. This guide will explore the usefulness of Deathwalker 9000 in today's Heroscaping environment.

We will begin with its stats.

Vital Statistics
Cost – 140 – Knight Class Unit
Size – Medium – Large / Visible
Life – 1 – Fragile
Move – 5 – Average
Range – 7 – Long
Attack – 4 – Good
Defense – 9 – Tough as nails
Explosion Special Attack – 3 Attack dice; also hits figures adjacent to target. High tactical advantage.
Range Enhancement – Adjacent Soulborg Guards add 2 to their range. Medium tactical advantage.

In-Depth Analysis

We shall now look carefully at Deathwalker 9000’s statistics, and draw strategies from our conclusions. Let us start with cost. Below is an explanation of Agatagary's cost classification:

Pawn class (expendable, units that can be useful, but are not worth enormous trouble to protect)
Bishop class (more useful than a pawn, but still somewhat expendable)
Knight class (units that are interestingly powerful and can have a significant impact on the game in of themselves. It is advisable that they be kept alive, but if absolutely necessary they may be sacrificed)
Rook class (units that almost inevitably have a significant impact on the game, and whose death should be avoided as much as possible)
Queen class (devastatingly powerful or important units that should be protected at all costs)

Class:
Let us begin with an analysis of Deathwalker 9000’s size and cost. As a 140 point figure, he is clearly a Knight. You don’t want to expend him too easily. He should take out his points worth and be used to scare the enemy into keeping a respectful distance. He is a large unit, which gives him certain immunities, and he is a single-spaced figure which allows him access to terrain that double-spaced large figures cannot access.

To examine Deathwalker 9000’s core stats, we will break them up into two categories—offensive ability and survivability.

Offense:
Deathwalker 9000 has a nice attack of 4 and range of 7, but Explosion is where it can really shine, under the right circumstances. Its threat range, the distance a unit can move over flat terrain plus its range, is a whopping 12! If you can catch opponents clustered together, especially those with a defense of 3 or lower, you can take out a whole gaggle of enemy figures. But don’t underestimate the usefulness of an attack of 4 a range of 7! We will consider the merits of using both Explosion and its normal attack in general strategy. Then, we will consider using Deathwalker 9000 in conjunction with soulborg guards.

Survivability:
Ah. Now here’s the rub. With only 1 Life, Deathwalker 9000 must always fear things that cause only one unblockable wound, such as leaving engagement attacks, falling from height 7 or more, or Deathwalker 7000’s Self-Destruct power at a roll of 4 or higher. On the other hand, he is immune to certain automatic destruction powers based on his size and he has 9 defense dice, by far the most in the game! Plus, he is a soulborg, which gives him immunity to certain other powers. Let us list the abilities that can’t hurt him, and put them into two main categories with subcategories:

Category 1 – Immunities due to Large size
Abilities that Lower Defense: Maul, Net Trip 14, Throw 14, Paralyzing Stare, Ullar Enhanced Rifle Special Attack, Whip 12

Automatic Destruction Abilities: Poisonous Acid Breath, Chomp, Lethal Sting*

Other Abilities: Cyberclaw, Giant Killer, Zombies Rise Again

*While Lethal Sting also denies the defender any defense dice, that is a moot point since the figure is destroyed.

Category 2 – Immunities from being a Soulborg
Proximity or Damaging Powers: Chilling Touch, Marro Plague, Toxic Skin

Scenario Powers: Deadly water in the Road to the Forgotten Forest scenario (soulborgs don’t take wounds when they enter the stream; other units do). This is admittedly only useful in that scenario, but for those who only have Rise of the Valkyrie and Road to the Forgotten Forest, it is a significant point, especially considering that Deathwalker 9000 has only 1 Life.


General Strategy:

Overarching everything is the following advice: use Deathwalker 9000 early, and use it often. Your mighty defense is difficult to penetrate – but a lucky roll will take Deathwalker 9000 out of the fight. Be offensive, even if you have to wait until opponents get within 12 spaces (your movement of 5 plus your range of 7) before you send the feared soulborg on the warpath.

That said, let us start with Explosion. Many figures have a lower movement rate than the Deathwalker 9000’s range of 7. Also, many of these slow moving units cluster together with bonding for synergy benefits. Specifically, this list includes: Roman Legionnaires with Marcus Decimus Gallus for Soldier Attack Enhancement, Sacred Band with Parmenio for Death Defy 15, Knights of Weston or MacDirk Warriors with Finn or Thorgrim for Attack Aura or Defense Aura, respectively, Arrow Gruts with Swog Riders for Orc Archer Enhancement, and Blade Gruts or Heavy Gruts with Grimnak for Orc Warrior Enhancement. These all make excellent targets for Explosion, especially since they cannot reach you before your attack can target them.

Some units, like the Roman Archers, do not bond, but they tend to stay together to benefit from the Arrow Volley Special Attack all the same. Similarly, the 4th Massachussets Line will sometimes cluster defensively around Marcus Decimus Gallus on a castle wall or hilltop to gain the benefit of his Soldier Attack Enhancement. All of these clusters are potential sitting ducks for the Deathwalker 9000.

A relatively new situation involves the various elf wizards that synergize when close. Some of these elves, such as Arkmer and Emirroon, benefit from the adjacency of other elves, and many of the elf heroes are relatively costly units. This makes them prime targets for Explosion Special Attack, well worth the risk of having them take shots at Deathwalker 9000.

Other situations are a little more complicated. Sometimes units from one army will cluster around another for special attacks or for swarming purposes. If the unit being swarmed is your own, you must decide whether to risk your own figure to get at several others. These combinations include: Soulborgs who follow Vydar (who are giving Blastatrons more attack dice), Zombies of Morandin, Ashigaru Yari, and inexpensive swarm units such as the Deathreavers or Venoc Vipers. If the unit being swarmed belongs to a third player, so much the better.

Now we get to the units who usually snicker at ranged attackers. The Dzu-Teh, cowering as they do by the glaciers, are not immune to Explosion. You needn’t catch more than one of them to use the power, so use it! Sgt. Drake Alexander is also cocky about ranged opponents. If you see him coming, try to stay a few steps ahead of him. With a move equal to his, you can outpace him -- until you run out of battlefield -- and your superior range of 7 and Special Attack of 3 dice against his defense of 3 should mean he is taken out in a few turns. Of course, don’t let him get close, as his attack of 6 can even the odds against your god-like defense.

With Swarm of the Marro, Drake is even more dangerous and the new version costs more than Deathwalker 9000. The same rules apply, but his defense of 4 makes him tougher to kill, and now he can get to you faster. Feel free to engage him with allied units to keep him at bay. You should still be able to do some damage to him before he reaches you.

Aside from units that stay close to one another for army card-related purposes, your opponent will likely have terrain purposes for putting units together as well. A small plateau can be great for height advantage, but if the enemy puts all his Omnicron Snipers together on that plateau, he is asking for Explosion! When multiple figures come knocking at your castle door, you can also wreak havoc. Mind you, the door itself receives a free shield from large figures, so you might want to risk helping your enemy get in for the chance to get rid of his figures. Narrow defiles that create natural bottlenecks force figures to move single file. Explosion can target one and get the figure in front and behind as well.

You should also consider drfting Deathwalker 7000 to be used as a sort of homing beacon. If you place Deathwalker 7000 adjacent to several enemy figures, you can use Deathwalker 9000's Explosion to target it. Deathwalker 7000 has Stealth Dodge and a Defense of 7. It will probably survive multiple bombings before being destroyed. It's like using Self-destruct multiple times.

Finally, don’t forget the usefulness of choosing double-space targets! A lowly Swog Rider might have as many as eight adjacent Archer Gruts. One explosion can wipe most or all of them out!

Now consider his attack of 4. With height advantage, it becomes an attack of 5 or even 6. If you have lost Finn and are using his Warrior Spirit power, so much the better. Deathwalker 9000 can take out some powerful figures with his normal attack, so don’t avoid putting order markers on him just because you can’t get a good Explosion target.

Don’t be afraid of Sujoah. His Poison Sting is useless to him; your defense is adequate to his attack, and if he does get through with a wound, you are already dead. Take him out with your massively high defense to protect you, and you will get rid of a figure that could wreak significant havoc on the rest of your army. In the same set, Gurei-Oni can be taken out too – just use Explosion, even if he is alone, as his Evil Eye Defense might make you regret attacking him (more on this in Units to Avoid).

Next, let us consider Range Enhancement. The Zettian Guards are the obvious choice, though Blastatrons also benefit from this boost. If you are defending a position, be sure to place these guards next to him. The enhanced guards will have a range even longer than Deathwalker 9000’s, which means that you will be able to fend off targets from even farther away, before they can reach your fortified position. If you have Gladiatrons to move out and swarm with Gladiatron Movement Bonding, you can buy those Blastatrons even more attack dice and more shots at the enemy figures which won’t be able to move close unless they get rid of your Gladiatrons. You might even consider tying down a bunch of enemies with a Gladiatron and then targeting the Gladiatron with Explosion, risking losing it but taking down your enemies too.

{Edit: jcb231 pointed out that Laglor's range enhancement also increases the range of the Blastatrons by two. This means that Deathwalker 9000 can give them a combined range of 11(!), which synergizes even better with the Gladiatrons as stated above. Thanks, jcb!}

Depending on the scenario, you might wish to advance Deathwalker 9000 instead of keeping him in one place. He is a single-spaced large figure, which means he can fit anywhere on the board (excepting the tightest spaces due to those guns) and remain immune to many specials due to his large size (see above). His insanely high defense will keep him alive against almost anything, as long as your luck holds out, and his high range means that you will get to attack most enemies before they get to attack you. If you are willing to spend a few extra order markers on the Zettians or Blastatrons, you can bring them along for Range Enhancment fun! The image of several soulborgs marching in deadly step down the battlefield can be downright intimidating!

If you wish to take this adjacency game on the road with the Zettian Guards, draft Warden 816. He will allow the Zettian Guards a movement of 5. On the other hand, Blastatrons already move 5, so they can keep up with Deathwalker 9000 just fine as they are. While the other soulborgs will be vulnerable to various killer automatic destruction abilities like Poisonous Acid Breath, their range of 9 and Deathwalker 9000’s own attacks will make enemies, even Braxas, leary of getting within range to use their specials. Remember, a single figure like Braxas is a prime candidate for your normal attack.

With all that said and done, when using Range Enhancement beware other Explosion type powers. If your opponent has his own Deathwalker 9000, or if he has drafted the Airborne Elite, James Murphy or Johnny Shotgun Sullivan, he can target your clustered soulborgs. Your ace in the hole is the your massively high defense – especially if you are using the Zettian Guards for Range Enhancement, with their defense of 7.

Deathwalker 9000 can step off of height 6 elevations safely. Don’t forget this when moving. His climbing is more limited as his movement can’t handle very tall obstacles, but if you manage to control the Glyph of Valda or have made use of Eldgrim’s Warrior Swiftness Spirit, don’t forget that with Move 7 he can literally walk over ruins. It is a maneuver so seldom seen that it is sure to surprise your opponents.

Units to Avoid:
Normal Attacks Against Counterstriking Units: Nothing says “Don’t touch me!” like counterstriking units defending against Life 1 figures. Even Deathwalker 9000’s attack of 4 is too low to risk the odds. Explosion, being a special attack, is a better choice as Counterstrike does not work against it; if you are swarmed by Samurai, you will have to trust your defense of 9 to keep you alive against your own Explosion power. Units affected: Captain America, Charos, Izumi Samurai, Kaemon Awa, Kozuke Samurai, Tagawa Samurai, Tagawa Samurai Archers.

In a similar vein, Gurei-Oni has Evil Eye Defense. Your attack of 4 is superior to his defense of 4, but you are a still probably better off using Explosion against him. His medium defense is generally lower in terms of shields rolled than your special attack and you don’t risk any lucky, unblockable Evil Eye wounds.

Swarming Units: If you are taking the battle to the enemy, be careful. You can’t risk disengaging Deathwalker 9000 when it is in melee due to its 1 Life. However, all is not lost. If your opponent swarms you while you are on the move, just change your strategy! He is obviously taking the battle to you, so take advantage of it. Since these units typically have low defense you should find it easy to pick them off with your normal attack, although they may be too numerous to take out one at a time. Use Explosion to take them out as they approach. If you get swarmed before they approach, you can try risking Explosion against several figures adjacent to you – don’t forget your defense of 9. It can keep you alive against your own attack. This way you can take them out quickly and go after the real targets.

On the other hand, you might be swarmed while you are in a defensive position. If so, follow the advice above – you want to scatter those swarmers quickly enough to free Deathwalker 9000 up to take on those higher price targets.

The following units have the ability to move up and swarm you quickly: Aubrien Archers, Elite Onyx Vipers and Venoc Vipers with frenzy, Deathreavers with scatter, Marrden Hounds with wild pack movement, Marro Drones with hive swarm, Tarn Viking Warriors with berserker charge, and Zombies of Morindan with horde movement.

From Swarm of the Marro, Sonlen presents a potentially lethal situation. If your Deathwalker 9000 is engaged with other figures and cannot target him, Sonlen can make repeated attempts with his Dragon Swoop, which is instant death for Deathwalkers. Try to keep him at arm’s length.

For additional information see the Book of Deathwalker 9000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8404)

[Captain_Gerbil]

simply awesome. I have been toying with D 9000 and the Zetian guards, as well as running him with Ornak and warden 816.

I'm really considering some sort of q8, q9, zetian guards, warden 816, and ornak power house movement death team.

[Fezzikthedoor]

A darned good guide. You and Agatagary are braver than me; I just stick to the easy guides. :wink:

[AgentX-127]

Very nice article...

Some members may remember the DW9000 support group thread back on the old HeroscapeHQ. The thread collected stories of spectacular (or "craptacular") DeathWalker critical failures.
I often thought that thread discouraged regular use of the "Great Exploder."

We have a thread for DW8000 on this site, but it includes stories about other DWs as well:
DW8000 Crap (and other DW stories.) (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=303#312)

I'm definitely going to break ol' DW9K out of the box again and try some of these strategies.
I'll let you know if they work well. If not I'll post in the thread I linked to up above :P

[Jexik]

Despite the fact that DW9k is sometimes seen as utter and complete feldercarb, this makes me almost want to use him for fun. Something like...

Warden 816
Zettian Guards
DW9K
2x Blastatrons
1x Gladiatrons

[jcb231]

I'd like to point out that DW9K's range enhancement stacks with Laglor's range enhancement. If you use the two together you can get Blastatrons that shoot 11 spaces. Combine that with Gladiatron move bonding to slow down approaching attackers and you've got quite a large field of threat, ideal for protecting a fixed position.

[Taeblewalker]

I'd like to point out that DW9K's range enhancement stacks with Laglor's range enhancement. If you use the two together you can get Blastatrons that shoot 11 spaces. Combine that with Gladiatron move bonding to slow down approaching attackers and you've got quite a large field of threat, ideal for protecting a fixed position.

Excellent point! I will add that to the strategy guide.

Thanks everyone, for all of the comments. His was a hard guide to write, but Fezzik and Agatagary gave me a lot of useful feedback (and corrected some terribe typos to boot).

[Fezzikthedoor]

Edit: I love cheesesteaks.

[Jexik]

Another thing to think about: since DW9K has the potential to die at any time, it might not be the wisest choice to place all 3 of your active order markers on him. I think the main reason a lot of people stay away from using DW9K is that they all remember that time when they lost him at the start of the round, and they proceeded to lose three whole turns.

On the other hand, he is a great place to drop your X order marker, because of his fiendishly high defense score. Most attacks will bounce right off. Then if he dies, you don't actually lose a turn. Maybe you can even swear loudly to make your opponent think you lost a real turn.

I think the Deathwalkers can be pretty effective, you just need to use them a little differently than you do Q9, order marker-wise.

[DEATHWALKER]

SWEET! I <3 DW 9000

but where's 8000's thread?

[Snotwalker 8000]

DW9K works beautifully with the rats! I think a key to using 9K is to always try to have a "melee screen" in front of him so that he can't be swarmed and rendered ineffective through enemy engagement. A screen of rats works very well for this. They can bog down approaching melee swarms (at least those without disengage abilities), and at 10pts a pop, you usually won't shed a tear over using your explosion attack on the enemy they're engaged with.

The rats also work well at tying up enemy ranged figures who approach 9K. Once most enemy ranged figs/squads get within shooting range, they'll also now be in range of your rats who can, in one turn usually, run up and engage them, preventing them from taking shots at 9K.

The Deathwalkers are always fun to play, and have their shining moments and glorious battles, but it's also important to not trust the "blue dice" and to keep expectations low... because you never know when that lone arrow grut with one skull rolled will bypass your seemingly invincible 9 defense dice... aka: blue field of death.

[Taeblewalker]

EDIT: I reworded a few parts that seemed clunky to read. Aren't these write-up ever done?

[ArcturusII]

I've actually found that when I draft the Zettian Guards with DW9K, I end up putting most of my order markers on the Zetts. 2 attacks per turn with Zettian Targeting is often better than the DW's single attack, especially when they have height.

Another fun maneuver is to engage incoming units with DW9K, then use him as a shield while the Zettian Guards target from range. DW9K has such a high defense that engaged units can be swinging for a while before they get lucky enough to pierce the Deathwalker.

DW9K has synergy with Ornak's Red Flag of Fury, granting him a free turn once per round, which is nice.

Once you accept the fact that Deathwalker 9000 is NOT invincible, and will eventually die just like any other hero, you will find that he is quite worth his 140 points. Just make sure you know what you're doing with the rest of your army :)

[DEATHWALKER]

I've actually found that when I draft the Zettian Guards with DW9K, I end up putting most of my order markers on the Zetts. 2 attacks per turn with Zettian Targeting is often better than the DW's single attack, especially when they have height.

Another fun maneuver is to engage incoming units with DW9K, then use him as a shield while the Zettian Guards target from range. DW9K has such a high defense that engaged units can be swinging for a while before they get lucky enough to pierce the Deathwalker.

DW9K has synergy with Ornak's Red Flag of Fury, granting him a free turn once per round, which is nice.

Once you accept the fact that Deathwalker 9000 is NOT invincible, and will eventually die just like any other hero, you will find that he is quite worth his 140 points. Just make sure you know what you're doing with the rest of your army :)I have some strategies of my own with DW 9000:

If I have a fortress on the field that is 2 or more stories high (and I most often do), I put DW 9000 on the highest story

this gives him +2 defense against most figures

9+2=ungodly defense

also, I use a strategy mentioned in the guide: If there are a large group of enemies clustered together, I use explosion special attack! this is most effective against the common squads of SotM

[Taeblewalker]

I've actually found that when I draft the Zettian Guards with DW9K, I end up putting most of my order markers on the Zetts. 2 attacks per turn with Zettian Targeting is often better than the DW's single attack, especially when they have height.

Another fun maneuver is to engage incoming units with DW9K, then use him as a shield while the Zettian Guards target from range. DW9K has such a high defense that engaged units can be swinging for a while before they get lucky enough to pierce the Deathwalker.

DW9K has synergy with Ornak's Red Flag of Fury, granting him a free turn once per round, which is nice.

Once you accept the fact that Deathwalker 9000 is NOT invincible, and will eventually die just like any other hero, you will find that he is quite worth his 140 points. Just make sure you know what you're doing with the rest of your army :)I have some strategies of my own with DW 9000:

If I have a fortress on the field that is 2 or more stories high (and I most often do), I put DW 9000 on the highest story

this gives him +2 defense against most figures

9+2=ungodly defense

also, I use a strategy mentioned in the guide: If there are a large group of enemies clustered together, I use explosion special attack! this is most effective against the common squads of SotM

Your opponent will probably figure out that the Marro Drudge and Marro Stingers don't need to be clustered together for any reason. The Marrden Nagrubs, however, tend to stay near their chosen Hivelord.

[Tai-Pan]

He can walk over ruins?!?!? I didn't know anyone could walk over ruins! How high are the ruins?

[Taeblewalker]

He can walk over ruins?!?!? I didn't know anyone could walk over ruins! How high are the ruins?

The ruins are height 6. If you control the Glyph of Valda, he has Move 7. Six to reach the top, one to step over. It's identical to the rules for walking over walls (Forgotten Forest) or battlements.

[imppious]

If you play many general specific armys you will find that the Zettians boosted by DW9k are the longest ranged units in Utgars army. Outranging anybody in Einar or Jandars armies. This is particularly helpful if either of these armies is defending a castle. Once you setup this trio and start taking free shots at the wall defenders it wont be long before they are forced to come out and fight.
This is still a useful comboa against ullar and vydar even if only to be able to match and return fire from their long range shooters.

[Zombie Hoard]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

[DEATHWALKER]

:boring: I love DW 9000!

[Taeblewalker]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

[Taeblewalker]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.
What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.

[Taeblewalker]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.

What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.

Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.

What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.

Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.
I thought you were talking WITHOUT a hivelord. Okay...
I wouldn't use the Nagrubs to cower behind the Hivelord anyway. I'd try to keep them adjacent as much as possible, but join in on the assualt, and if necessary, charge them up a hill to engage someone.
Edit: The main problem with the Nagrubs is that the Hivelords are just so darn expensive. With the Roborats, I can get two squads and the Krav Maga and be done. To get an equal amount with Tor-Kul-Na and the Nagrubs, it costs 100 points more, and you're likely going to need more for both the Roborats and Nagrubs, so yeah. Also, we can't forget that the Nagrubs only have 3 in a squad!

[Taeblewalker]

Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord? :wink:

Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).

But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.

What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.

Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.
I thought you were talking WITHOUT a hivelord. Okay...
I wouldn't use the Nagrubs to cower behind the Hivelord anyway. I'd try to keep them adjacent as much as possible, but join in on the assualt, and if necessary, charge them up a hill to engage someone.

EXACTLY! Don't keep them all adjacent; send most of them out, but keep a few next to Tor-Kul-Na. Even if they get targeted and killed, they served their function of sparing the Hivelord a wound.

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Heh. I'd like to help if necessary! It'd be interesting to help with one of these, especially with the first SoTM unit! Let's do the Drudge next if we do.

[Taeblewalker]

EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).

[Zealot]

EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).

In a similar sense, Marcu is excellent for this strategy as well (particularly if you're using Ornak)

Ornak activates Marcu who flies into the middle of some enemies and tries to kill/wound someone; Ornak then activates DW 9000 who blasts Marcu with an Explosion attack. While Marcu isn't as reusable as DW 7000 when it comes to being a homing beacon, the strategy can be used more than once before your vampire bites the dust (he'll last longer if he can kill some ppl for self healing in between explosions).

The main reason I mention this strategy modification is because of points.

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
100 - DW 7000
340 points, is considerably more of an investment than...

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu
260 points, which still gives you room to fill out your army.

Take this 500 point army for example...

100 - Ornak
100 - Tornak
140 - Heavy Gruts x2
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu

500 points of powerful melee, with a homing beacon/glyph grabber (Marcu), and some range support with a special attack.

[Ullar/utgar own]

nice guide. i am going to try dw9k as soon as i get rotv!

[kolakoski]

Well met!


EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).

In a similar sense, Marcu is excellent for this strategy as well (particularly if you're using Ornak)

Ornak activates Marcu who flies into the middle of some enemies and tries to kill/wound someone; Ornak then activates DW 9000 who blasts Marcu with an Explosion attack. While Marcu isn't as reusable as DW 7000 when it comes to being a homing beacon, the strategy can be used more than once before your vampire bites the dust (he'll last longer if he can kill some ppl for self healing in between explosions).

The main reason I mention this strategy modification is because of points.

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
100 - DW 7000
340 points, is considerably more of an investment than...

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu
260 points, which still gives you room to fill out your army.

Take this 500 point army for example...

100 - Ornak
100 - Tornak
140 - Heavy Gruts x2
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu

500 points of powerful melee, with a homing beacon/glyph grabber (Marcu), and some range support with a special attack.

You could go whole hog and also use Krug and, to a lesser extent, Brunak as potential targets. As a bonus, Brunak could keep Ornak within range of his heroes.

140 DW 9000
120 Krug
110 Brunak
100 Ornak
20 Marcu
500

David

[Sarpedon]

Greetings, Taeblewalker et al.

First of all, nice post. You really covered (almost?) all of the good practical uses of DWK 9000. While I readily concede that he is a formidable adversary, I would like to point out to (new) site members why he is rarely seen in tournaments/competitive play as this aspect was not covered in detail because, clearly, it was not the focus of the original post.

DWK 9000 has four major drawbacks: fragility, cost, speed and order marker cost.

He is fragile because it only takes one hit to kill him. This was covered in the post. What was not explained is how easlily this can happen. With a defense of 9, one would think that most units' attacks would not be able to punch through. However, consider this: DWK 9000 is as likely to roll zero, one or two shields as he is to roll four, five, six, seven, eight and nine shields. That means he will very, very often roll less than three shields! Guess what? That makes him incredibly vulnerable to average squad attacks. This explains why he is so often destroyed before earning his keep.

To invest 140 points in a unit that can be so easily destroyed is bad enough, but, in addition, he is very slow and thus, once exposed, he can't escape from enemy melee or ranged units. His range of 7 means that he has to get (relatively) close to his enemies in order to attack. This exposure almost guarantees that on the following turn his crystal jaw is put to the test, and it disappoints too often.

The forementioned alone would disqualify him from competitive play, but he has yet another cost that is not apparent until it is too late. Heroscape is primarily a game to tactical maneouvering and probability management. By moving DWK 9000 several times, you are foregoing the deployment/development/positioning of the rest of your army. You are conceding glyphs and height advantages without compensation. It is equivalent to moving the queen 3 times in a chess opening and giving your opponent total control of the centre.

Every glyph that your opponent secures with his (ranged) squads makes his army far better: simply consider how much better a Marro Stinger army becomes once it secures the attack glyph and shoots at DWK 9000 with Stinger Drain and perhaps height advantage to boot. It would be an attack of 6 per Stinger! DWK 9000 usually considers glyph-securing a menial task that is beneath him, and yet, often, it is that very fact that speeds his demise.

By having to place so many order markers on the big bot, your other units will be left out of position while your opponent races to secure glyphs and height advantages. Not only will your DWK 9000 then be easier to destroy, but so will the rest of your army which is still sitting in the start zone. When the cost of order markers is added to DWK 9000's point cost, he becomes a ridiculously high-priced unit given the other options that are available.

[Taeblewalker]

Very well-said!

[Brewster]

Hmm, I never thought of 9K with Glads + Blasts... cool ^^

[gorthan313]

9K works well in an Utgar hero army with Ornak.


EDIT: Heck, any/all of the DWs work well in that situation!

[Taeblewalker]

I added a bit about targeting elf heroes.

[Toad Rocket]

In response to Sarpedon I would say the one thing to consider with the OM placement is that DW9K isnt, or at least shouldnt, be used as first wave. First wave usually consists of swarmers and glyph grabbers to gain position/glyps ASAP. DW9K would be coming out typically as second wave or third/last wave. While this doesnt negate his flaws per say, but I think you slightly over embelished how bad the OM placement can be.

If your opening 3 turns are on DW, yeah, then that costs you badly for unit placement in the initial phases of the game. However, if you already have your swarmers out in the field, then the OM cost isnt as nearly as bad. Mind you, I do agree that he does have a higher cost of OM placement as an OM on him counts for only one move, though it is offset slightly by his special attack which allows you the oppurtunity to hit multiple units.

[Sarpedon]

Greetings, Toad Rocket.

I'm currently on vacation from generating threads/posts, but I reserve the right to respond. I hear what you say regarding the mid-late game use of DWK 9000 as being optimal and I would agree. However, I don't agree that its special attack helps much.

DWK 9000's explosion special attack is a bit like the Knights of Weston's Coward's Reward ability. If your opponent knows you have it and fully understands it, he will never give you the opportunity to use it: he'll keep his units spread out. That's why I think it's overpriced. Its special attack never gets a chance to be exploited in most (tournament) maps against most (good tournament) opponents.

Also, whether at the start, middle or end of a game, order markers on DWK 9000 still do less than order markers on the 4th Mass., Stingers, etc.. That is just a fact. Ranged common squads would take over the glyphs (even if they have to destroy the units you have holding them) while DWK 9000 (perhaps) destroys one per turn. There are just too many minuses and you can bet one of them will make you lose one way or another.

140 points could be better spent on a couple of decent ranged squads. Sure, DWK 9000 is fine to play at home, but I wouldn't recommend you take it to a (competitive) tournament. That's just my experience. Perhaps in the future something will make it more playable in tournaments, who knows. Anyway, have fun playing it in casual games.

[dok]

DWK 9000's explosion special attack is a bit like the Knights of Weston's Coward's Reward ability. If your opponent knows you have it and fully understands it, he will never give you the opportunity to use it: he'll keep his units spread out. That's why I think it's overpriced. Its special attack never gets a chance to be exploited in most (tournament) maps against most (good tournament) opponents.
Agreed, however, there are two notable caveats to this. One is that you may get the opportunity against some opponents whose figures rely on adjacency. Of course, most such figures don't have to remain adjacent, and can simply spread out and give up their associated bonuses. But is they give up their adjacency bonuses, that's a positive, too.

This leads into the second point, which is that simply by having an unrevealed OM sitting on a figure with explosive attack, you can limit what your opponent is willing to do in figure placement. This can have all sorts of advantages, like limiting how many figures your opponent places on height or how effectively a key choke point is blocked.

If throwing the "X" on an explosive attack figure (or occasionally a number, just to keep 'em guessing) weakens your opponent's figure positioning, then that can help you in ways that fall through the cracks in a simple "how much can this kill" analysis.

Of course, you can achieve this same effect for roughly half the price with one of the cowboys, and you can get a lot more bang for your big-ticket explosive attack buck by spending another 45 and taking Zelrig. So don't read this as an endorsement of DW9k, per se.

[Toad Rocket]

Greetings, Toad Rocket.

I'm currently on vacation from generating threads/posts, but I reserve the right to respond. I hear what you say regarding the mid-late game use of DWK 9000 as being optimal and I would agree. However, I don't agree that its special attack helps much.

DWK 9000's explosion special attack is a bit like the Knights of Weston's Coward's Reward ability. If your opponent knows you have it and fully understands it, he will never give you the opportunity to use it: he'll keep his units spread out. That's why I think it's overpriced. Its special attack never gets a chance to be exploited in most (tournament) maps against most (good tournament) opponents.

Also, whether at the start, middle or end of a game, order markers on DWK 9000 still do less than order markers on the 4th Mass., Stingers, etc.. That is just a fact. Ranged common squads would take over the glyphs (even if they have to destroy the units you have holding them) while DWK 9000 (perhaps) destroys one per turn. There are just to many minuses and you can bet one of them will make you lose one way or another.

140 points could be better spent on a couple of decent ranged squads. Sure, DWK 9000 is fine to play at home, but I wouldn't recommend you take it to a (competitive) tournament. That's just my experience. Perhaps in the future something will make it more playable in tournaments, who knows. Anyway, have fun playing it in casual games.

I hear you, and I do not really disagree with you. My only real point is that in your orginal post you compared to 9K to the Queen in chess. If you move the queen right off the bat you lose valuable set up with your pawns. But if you have your pawns set up, then having three turns in a row with the queen may or may not be a bad thing. Same with 9k, once your 'pawns' are set up then OM placement on him isnt that horrible.
However, I do agree that he is not efficient with OM usuage and yes, using a squad of 4th or stingers would be more efficient.
I am not really disagreeing with you in concept, but rather the extent you orginally expressed.

[Sarpedon]

Greetings, dok.

To your first point, yes, IF your opponent is playing with the Roman Legionnaires (who need clustering for defensive bonuses), the Nakita Agents, the Elf Wizards, etc., then you will probably get a chance to use the explosive special attack at some point. Nevertheless, an opposing army comprised of A and A+ units (tournament-worthy), in the hands of a decent opponent, will rarely, if ever, give you a chance. As you said, you could achieve this same effect with Shotgun Sullivan for much less money.

The second point about "keeping an opponent guessing" by placing the x marker on DWK 9000 I don't really agree with. If I have a competitive army, I will still secure glyphs and still attack because the threat is far less than the potential benefit that I will gain. One order marker on DWK 9000 and then what? He'll be (relatively) easy pickings for glyph, height and stinger drain-enhanced Marro Stingers (for example).

If I traded off two squads of Stingers for DWK 9000 I would still come out 20 points ahead! However, with only one order marker on it, I would not fear losing even one squad, let alone two. Beyond that, you would have had to have spent one or two orders getting DWK 9000 from your start zone onto a spot from which it could threaten my units in the first place. Again, "moving the queen in the opening".

Two or three order markers on DWK 9000 is (almost always) extremely wasteful and risky (you may lose order markers if its destroyed before revealing them and then the rest of your units will miss turns), and one order marker on it won't scare a capable player with a competitive army. Hmmm... perhaps the only real competitive edge that DWK 9000 may give you is that it may make your opponent believe he's facing a dunce and that he will subsequently underestimate you to his demise. I would concede that this could happen! LOL. Again, have fun playing with it.

[Einar's puppy]

Sarpedon, you are forgetting that special attacks are really helpful for taking out units like death reavers. They won't scatter from this guy.

[Taeblewalker]

Of course, you can achieve this same effect for roughly half the price with one of the cowboys, and you can get a lot more bang for your big-ticket explosive attack buck by spending another 45 and taking Zelrig. So don't read this as an endorsement of DW9k, per se.


Excellently put!

[Toad Rocket]

Just to be clear, in my defense of DW9k I never tried to contend that he was a good choice for a tournament army. His weaknesses outweigh his advantages expecially in relation to his cost when put in light of the competitive circuits.
I was just trying to say I thought Sarpedon was somewhat overzealous in his post about how horrible 9k is on OM effiecency. I was just trying to argue that in certain aspects OM placement on 9k can be beneficial. Though he will never be considered a strong tournament character unless he gets some sort of bonding with a squad.
My comment that his special attack slightly offset his one turn OM marker usuage because it could get multiple opponents. Or at least threaten that he could get multiple targets thus forcing your opponent to adjust his figures accordingly. Remeber, I said SLIGHTLY offset.

[Sarpedon]

Hello, again, Toad Rocket.

When I discuss units, I look at them from a tournament player's point of view. At home, I regularly create scenarios (such as an abandoned house) in which the units are pre-selected (30 zombies attacking the house against any 500 point army trying to "hold the fort"). No unit is bad or unplayable in such cases. In fact, at home, I almost always create interesting scenarios that feature NON-tournament-worthy units.

However, aside from discussing how to best use the units, there really isn't much to talk about. If I were to discuss how best to use the zombies, it wouldn't take long and there would be no chance for discussion. The most interesting discussions, in my opinion, occur between people who disagree about the merits of something. Merit (power or value per point spent) has no meaning in casual play. It is purely a tournament consideration.

If you wish to write about how best to use a unit in casual play and nothing more, that's fine, but it won't generate much, if any, discussion and it would be better placed in one of the Books of Heroscape rather than in a thread of its own. The whole point of having threads is for people to participate, discuss and disagree, not to intellectually inbreed.

Is DWK 9000 playable casually? Absolutely. Just like ANY other unit. I agree 100% with you there. Is his special attack better than nothing? Yes, of course it's better than nothing. On both those fronts we agree entirely. Did I overstate his weaknesses in regards to a competitive setting? I do not think so and, apparently, neither do you. Agreeing is peaceful, but not much fun.

[dok]

To your first point, yes, IF your opponent is playing with the Roman Legionnaires (who need clustering for defensive bonuses), the Nakita Agents, the Elf Wizards, etc., then you will probably get a chance to use the explosive special attack at some point. Nevertheless, an opposing army comprised of A and A+ units (tournament-worthy), in the hands of a decent opponent, will rarely, if ever, give you a chance.
You're overstating things quite a bit to say that only A and A+ units are tournament worthy.

As you said, you could achieve this same effect with Shotgun Sullivan for much less money.
Yep. The only time I would really even consider the Deathwalker would be alongside Ornak at 600+ points, because you can activate DW9k for half of an OM.

The second point about "keeping an opponent guessing" by placing the x marker on DWK 9000 I don't really agree with. If I have a competitive army, I will still secure glyphs and still attack because the threat is far less than the potential benefit that I will gain. One order marker on DWK 9000 and then what? He'll be (relatively) easy pickings for glyph, height and stinger drain-enhanced Marro Stingers (for example).
I'm not sure you followed my point. My point here is that you can keep your opponent from clustering units because they don't want to get hit with exploding attacks. If your opponent is always careful to never put two figures adjacent to one another within 12 hexes of DW9k, this will restrict their figure placement considerably. That gives you a tactical advantage, even if DW9k remains unactivated the vast majority of the time.

My point on OM placement was just that you can't always put the "x" there, or your opponent will catch on to the bluff. You have to occasionally activate him if you want to keep your opponent from putting figures adjacent to one another.

This strategy is easier to use with Zelrig than DW9k, but DW9k can manage it.

Beyond that, you would have had to have spent one or two orders getting DWK 9000 from your start zone onto a spot from which it could threaten my units in the first place. Again, "moving the queen in the opening".
On most maps, DW9k can hit the center of the battlefield on his first OM. I might spend one OM to put him on height, but that would be it as far as opening moves go.

Two or three order markers on DWK 9000 is (almost always) extremely wasteful and risky (you may lose order markers if its destroyed before revealing them and then the rest of your units will miss turns)
Agreed.

and one order marker on it won't scare a capable player with a competitive army.
It depends what you mean by "scare". The point is to force them to keep their figures non-adjacent. If they're not "scared" and start clumping units on height or at choke points, then that one order marker you put on DW9k will be well spent, as he can hit 3+ figures with a fairly strong ranged special.

[Sarpedon]

Hello, dok

I didn't claim that only A and A+ units are tournament worthy. I only said that all A and A+ units are tournament-worthy. There are others (few in my opinon, admittedly) from the other categories that are viable in certain army builds. Besides, that wasn't my focus. I was discussing DWK 9000's merit relative to those units, not the merits (tournament-worthiness) of other non-elite units. I wanted to clear that up.

I agree that using Ornak makes DWK 9000 better, but still not good enough. After all, Ornak can only activate two Utgar Heroes on the first turn, leaving DWK 9000 as before for turns 2 and 3. To include Ornak, as you pointed out, we'd then be talking about 600+ point armies which are rarely allowed in tournaments today. It's a moot point.

Regarding DWK 9000's explosion attack, we must, I suppose, agree to disagree. If I have lots of ranged elite squads I will NOT fear the single order marker placed on DWK 9000. Why? As I said, I'm willing to sacrifice one or two units to reap far greater rewards. Consider also that its special explosion attack is only 3 dice. Moving it onto height (as you said) or securing the attack glyph will not improve this special explosion attack (height would only improve his defense by one).

One thing more: are we assuming it will always/probably roll 3 skulls? The expected result is 1.5 skulls. That means it is just as likely to roll one or no skulls (unlikely) as it is to roll 2 or 3 skulls (unlikely). Is that so scary? Not really. It's a risk I would consider acceptable, especially if my squads have secured a defense glyph and/or are being boosted by Raelin.

Its explosion attack has a 50% chance of being only zero or one skull. That's the nail in the coffin. The "great" explosion is often a letdown itself! It is difficult to make it happen if and when an opponent clusters units and, on top of that, it is very likely to do little or no damage to defensively enhanced units. Good discussion.

[ollie]

Interesting stuff everyone, thanks for the read. As someone who has reached the final of a tournament with DW9K, I'm firmly on the tournament-worthy side of the fence. It should also be noted that I think that almost every unit is tournament worthy in the right build however.

DW9K has a normal attack of 4 at a range of 7, backed by a nice big handful of defence dice. Those are the facts that make him viable in my opinion. A wall of rats and an opponent who has mainly heroes and you're all set. Some support that can handle common squads to round out the army is obviously useful. (I didn't have this, concentrating more on boosting DW9K by using the Nakitas' smoke bombs and engagement striking. I lost in the final to an army including 4th Mass x5.) The explosion is a nice bonus every now again, but not where the value lies. Actually, the fact that it's a special and can bypass various other powers is more useful in my experience than the multiple targets part.

[Sarpedon]

Hi, Ollie

Regarding your idea of supporting DWK 9000 with the Nakita Agents, did your opponents not have special ranged attacks (you had a wall of rats and they had mainly melee heroes)? Sure, if your opponents drafted poorly, then I suppose DWK 9000 could be viable. Remember that smoke powder only works against normal ranged attacks, and even then it is very likely to fail. I do agree with you that DWK 9000's "strong points" are its high defense, above-average range, and normal attack of 4.

Nevertheless, more merit to you for having reached the final using it. In fact, I would say that you made it to the final in spite of using DWK 9000! Notice that you lost to an A+ common-ranged-squad-centered army, though. That would tend to support my position.

[ollie]

Hi, Ollie

Regarding your idea of supporting DWK 9000 with the Nakita Agents, did your opponents not have special ranged attacks? Remember that smoke powder only works against normal ranged attacks, and even then it is very likely to fail. I do agree with you that DWK 9000's "strong points" are its high defense, above-average range, and normal attack of 4.

Nevertheless, more merit to you for having reached the final using it.

Some had ranged specials: any unit with a ranged special was the first target. I should also add that it was a sideboard tournament. Before each game I could look at my opponents 600pt pool (and he mine) and choose a 500pt army. It tends to be uniques that have ranged specials. I had Morsbane as a counterdraft in that case, theoretically to do some negating but it turned out that he earned his points by having a bigger bullseye on him than DW9K rather than actually doing any negating (he didn't have a single successful negation, but he was crucial in each of his three games). My "counter" to common hordes was to use Dund instead of Morsbane. You can probably guess how well that worked. ;)

EDIT: I just saw this added bit to your post:

In fact, I would say that you made it to the final in spite of using DWK 9000! Notice that you lost to an A+ common-ranged-squad-centered army, though. That would tend to support my position.

I think maybe we're using different definitions of "tournament-worthy". If a unit can be built into an army that has a shot at winning an event, that makes it tournament-worthy in my book. Consistently being able to beat the A+ super-builds is a step above that. Along the way I did beat two Glad/Blast/Raelin armies (albeit in ridiculously close games---two dice rolls were the difference between a 4-1 record and a 2-3 record).

[dok]

I agree that using Ornak makes DWK 9000 better, but still not good enough. After all, Ornak can only activate two Utgar Heroes on the first turn, leaving DWK 9000 as before for turns 2 and 3. To include Ornak, as you pointed out, we'd then be talking about 600+ point armies which are rarely allowed in tournaments today. It's a moot point.It appears to be becoming more common. The winner of the main event may be rolling out a 640 point army. And nobody is forcing you to activate DW9k on turns 2 and 3 in an Ornak army.

Regarding DWK 9000's explosion attack, we must, I suppose, agree to disagree. If I have lots of ranged elite squads I will NOT fear the single order marker placed on DWK 9000. Why? As I said, I'm willing to sacrifice one or two units to reap far greater rewards.I'm not sure what you mean here. If you mean that you would place figures with no regard for DW9k's explosion attack, then DW9k is going to be able to hit three or more figures in an activation quite frequently. If he does that, order markers placed on him are very well spent. There's nothing sub-par about hitting three or more figures with an attack of 3. Perhaps it's logical not to fear it, but ignoring concerns about adjacency will make DW9k quite effective.

One thing more: are we assuming it will always/probably roll 3 skulls?Not at all. Why would you think so? It's an attack of 3; same as any other attack of 3. If he can hit three figures with it, it can do plenty of damage. That's the same offensive output as stingers or Q9. You say, "it is very likely to do little or no damage to defensively enhanced units", but that's not my experience with stingers or Q9 or any other set of 3 attacks of 3. Defense dice whiff more often than attack dice, after all. (Incidentally, DW9k's alternative, normal attack if figures aren't lined up for an explosion is the same as Q9's, as well.)

It is difficult to make it happen if and when an opponent clusters unitsYou can't have it both ways. It's very common to place figures adjacent to one another if there's no reason not to do so. Either you're going to be exposed to exploding attacks on most DW9k activations, in which case those will be productive activations, or you're going to position your figures to deny explosion, in which case you're accepting a tactical disadvantage.

I'm not arguing that he's a fantastic figure - just that there are tactical uses for him even in a good army, and that he's maybe a bit underrated. Again, the cowboys achieve a similar effect for half the cost, and Zelrig is more effective in a similar role for 45 more points.

[Sarpedon]

Good points, everyone.

Well, I think everyone has presented excellent cases both for and against DWK 9000. What a great thread up to this point. Thousands of fellow members have read it and, hopefully, enjoyed it. THIS is how a thread SHOULD be: highly entertaining and informative. Not just silly one-line posts back and forth ad nauseum.

Kudos to everyone who has taken part. I'll now bow out of the thread because I have, at this time, nothing further to add. I'll let the readers decide where they stand. Either way, there were no losers because I think everyone benefited from the discussion. Thanks for a great time and I look forward to future discussions with you all.

[Taeblewalker]

I appreciate that my guide has generated so much good discussion - thanks, Ollie, for the tournament playtest data, and thanks to everyone for all of the insights, especially the point about Ornak, whio I don't even think was out when I wrote the guide. Hopefully a future release will breathe some more life into this unit. Deathwalker Bonding, anyone?

[tubafication]

That would come in handy, a soulburg/deathwalker bonding. Maybe a 100 point general who survived and bonded, nothing much more. I think that would definitely be interesting. Except it would make the rats very powerful.

[Toad Rocket]

The bonding should be towards Unique Heroes like how the gruts do beast bonding.

It would of been nice if our little zettian friends had bonding with the DW series of bots. That would help all of those guys see more action and I cant imagine too many people thinking that would be overpowered.

hmmm,

[Therion]

Bonding would be great with a DW! If you could take a common squad with 5-7 defense, bond them with a 4 attack/7 range Hero...
(Or, use explosion to affect 2-7 figures, then move the squad for 3-4 attacks :drool:.)

Oh, for those of you who say that a cowboy would be better for an explosion attack, note that 9K's has 7 range on it, rather than 5. Also, he has a normal attack double that of the lawmen, is harder to kill, and boosts the Zettian and the Blastatrons range.

[Toad Rocket]

Well, I think the point was that the cowboy could fill in the same function at a much lower cost.

[Therion]

Yes, you do have a point, but note that DW9K can do things other than attack clustered units. (An attack of 4 at a range of 7 is nothing to sneeze at.)

On a side note, I think it should be mentioned in the guide that DW's explosion attack only needs a clear sight (meaning non-hitzone areas can be targeted).

[gorthan313]

Well, I think the point was that the cowboy could fill in the same function at a much lower cost.


I don't know about James, but Johnny's shotgun blast is only five range.

[donjake]

good guide but ill probly stay away from this thing still

[Taeblewalker]

good guide but ill probly stay away from this thing still

Thanks for the kind words anyway. He really is tough to use well. I don't blame you!

[donjake]

good guide but ill probly stay away from this thing still

Thanks for the kind words anyway. He really is tough to use well. I don't blame you!
but strangly enough i use warden 816 and zettien gaurds sometimes