Collected Barracks Voting Threads

[Grungebob]

InfinityMax's Post:

This thread is intended to keep a record of the comments and voting numbers of Barracks voting threads. I'll be recording the customs with vote histories here, and the comments will, unfortunately, be kind of scattered throughout the thread.

Veridian Dusk Devil: Voted into the Barracks
Voting History: 17 Votes. 13 Yes, 2 Overpowered, 2 Underpowered.
(Voting thread deleted)

Reflective Monks: Voted in
Voting history: 13 votes. 13 Yes

Colossor: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 14. No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 2

Selene: Voted out
23 votes, 15 yes, 1 overpowered, 7 other reason

Treant Woodlord: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 15, No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 1

Woodwoad Warriors: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 16, No - Underpowered: 1

Agnar the Black Knight: Voted out
Voting History: 19 votes, 5 yes, 2 underpowered, 4 overpowered, 8 other reason

Bearers of the Way: voted out
18 votes, 8 yes, 7 underpowered, 3 other reason

Alien Queen and Alien: voted in
Voting History: 16 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Underpowered: 1, No - Other Reason - 2

Haether: Voted in
Voting history: 18 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Overpowered - 1, No - Underpowered - 1, No - Other Reason - 3

Praetorian Guard: Voted in
Voting History - 24 total votes; Yes: 19; No - Overpowered: 1; No - Underpowered - 3; No - Other Reason: 1

Llenadil: Voted in
19 votes, 18 yes, 1 other reason

Elentar the Cloud Champion: Voted in
11 votes, 9 yes, 2 no - overpowered

Landarian Cloud Warriors and Landarian Sky Guard: Voted in
21 votes, 19 yes, 2 no - overpowered

Grand Master Traven: Voted in
12 votes, 9 yes, 1 no - under, 1 no - over, 1 no - other reason

Shin-Hua: Voted in
21 votes, 15 yes, 2 no-under, 1 no-over, 3 no-other

Krijgsheer Kjeld: Voted down
14 votes, 2 yes, 9 no-over, 3 no-other

Arctic Migoi: Voted in
18 votes, 15 yes, 13 no-other

________

GrungeBob's Post:

I nominate the reflective monks by the community Bizzaro project. So far I feel these are the best guys from that project. I highly encourage anybody to try these guys out using extra samurai figs. They are great and certainly could see play on anybody's table:

http://upload4.postimage.org/488731/Monks.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/488731/photo_hosting.html)

[Grungebob]

This is one of Imax's best and most fun units... The Colossor. He has appeared in many games in Texas and is ready for the rest of the world.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10020/colossor-lo.jpg

[skyknight]

An easy yes on my part. I am having trouble trackin down Battleballers though. I would love to get some.

[skyknight]

Another no brainer, by the way Nomination is misspelled in the header. Also this is a great example of a simple repaint anyone can do.

[Grungebob]

I wish they were not common but I never have taken more than one squad anyway. I think an entire army made of these guys could be a problem. But I have not played an entire army of reflective monks.

[Grungebob]

Try ebay

[Rÿchean]

I've seen this guy in play a couple of times. I think he works great. :-D

[truth]

I'm pretty sure I made a better card for these guys... I'll have to check when I get home.

[InfinityMax]

I like these. Anyone know who made this card?

[Doc_Savage]

It should be noted that the figure is from the MB game BATTLEBALL - the game is available at many TRU for about $10.

[Grungebob]

I like these. Anyone know who made this card?Who did the card? Or who came up with the stats and stuff? I remember that it was a group effort in the Bizarro project that yielded this gem. Sure they are simple and not that mind blowing BUT they play excellently.

[InfinityMax]

OK, that's 13, the monks are in. But I need to know who made this custom. Anyone know that one? I'll leave this thread unlocked until I find out.

[InfinityMax]

Sorry, GB, not paying attention. The last creator nominated is supposed to nominate the next one, so I need to know who ought to find the next bitchin' custom.

[truth]

Sorry, GB, not paying attention. The last creator nominated is supposed to nominate the next one, so I need to know who ought to find the next bitchin' custom.

Reaper headed up the Bizzaro project... so prehaps it should be him.

[InfinityMax]

OK, I'll PM him.

[reapersaurus]

hands-down, easy call. :thumbsup:
The best part about this unit is that he's so easy to get & cheap (or was) and it's an impressive fig.

[InfinityMax]

Bunjee and Elstree cooperated on this figure for a team custom contest at .net. Obviously, since I'm nominating it, I like it. Plus the figure is a D&D Minis figure, and in a pinch you can use a piece of wood.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10007/treantcard.jpg

[Karkadinn]

I still think my undead centaurs have th best charge-like ability. ;D But there ain't nothin' wrong with this card. It's very clean and purdy and officially worded... plus, Wrack and Ruin is fun to say.

[reapersaurus]

Annerios' Selene is a really easy fig to acquire - just grab that extra female Krav Maga Agent, and get down with her leather-clad action hero. There are many other figures that would do the trick, too.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Selene_Alt_rev_3.JPG (http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10013/Selene_Alt_rev_3.JPG)
(Click for full size pic)

She's very good against werewolves, and is solid against other foes. Her low defense is somewhat offset by her ability to drink blood and heal herself. I like how her healing doesn't always work - it's not like a regeneration, it's dependant on her attacking adjacent figs, in close battle.
She can't retreat from battle and heal up.

Click here for Annerios' gallery. (http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/thumbnails.php?album=66)

[reapersaurus]

I thought your Undead Charge guys were more like truth's Echelon?
Either way, they both have a good charge mechanic.

This one is a good Trample attack, one of the first IIRC - in the same contest as my Mumak/Oliphaunt, which has every ability under the sun. :lol:

Kark - you need to put up your creator thread, and Gallery - I'm looking for them but can't find them. :?:

[reapersaurus]

oh - and I can't think of this Treant without the Woodwoad - they need to go together, if you ask me.
They were made as part of a Team Contest, and should get entered in together, if they are. :D

[Karkadinn]

Charge, trample, basically the same theme. ;) You have a good point about how team cards should be entered as a team, too.
As for my own creations, I was actually kinda waiting to see if anyone else would care about their loss before spending the time putting them up... heh... kinda self-centered of me, I know.

[reapersaurus]

You kidding?
I want to see your tilting-at-windmills-folly of Dracula card again, and remember what it evolved to! We did a lot of work on that guy, trying to make such large, creative ideas playable in HS. :D

Some of us have these huge grandiose card ideas, and just have to spend the time to get them out, despite few people caring about them but us. For me, it's the Oliphaunt that is my folly.

I also really liked what you were working towards - the fantastically-impressive parchment/scroll backgrounds included with the card, the Undead Centaur card that I need to get saved :!: and your latest creations were getting stronger and stronger, it seemed to me - I don't know why you stopped (other than the HQ slow-down stopping your interest in the site) - hopefully with the speed of access here on HSers, we can get to see your old work, and hopefully updated/new work, too.

[uncas14]

I voted No, for other reasons. The reason I voted no is because of the Blood Drinker special ability. I don't like that it is limited to work on only humans, vampires, and werewolves. I realize why this is, because of the movie, but I don't think that it should be incorporated like this into the Heroscape world. I just think it's kind of silly that she can drink human blood, vampire blood, and wolf blood, but not elf blood, orc blood, gorilla blood, valkyrie blood, etc. The limitations as they are just don't seem to fit in with the rest of Heroscape. I know that it may seem like I'm nit-picking, and that I may be the only person slightly bothered by this, but that is why I voted no.

[reapersaurus]

No votes could help if they explain what they see wrong with it.... :shrug:

Otherwise, we're working in the dark here.

edit: haha - we posted at the same time.
Thanks for providing info why you don't go for it.

[Karkadinn]

Well, would you rather have a Selene that can drink only from a few select appropriate species, or a Selene that can drink from a wide range of species, including a few that happen to be inappropriate? Because there's no easy way to word things so that she only drinks from critters with bona fide blood, after all. Also, one could assume that she CAN drink any kind of blood, but only gains nourishment sufficient to provide super fast healing from particular kinds of blood. That would actually make a lot of sense... if vampires don't have a REASON to drink human blood over animal, there's really no logical reason for them to not just live on animal blood instead, considering all the complications involved with regularly drinking the blood of sentient beings....

[yagyuninja]

Wooo, I like this one a lot! I voted yes, and I'm totally going to use a piece of wood for this guy. I'm glad you nominated this one Imax...I've never seen it before. Actually, since I've only been around since HQ, I wonder if there are a bunch of guys that I'm missing out on... :cry:

[reapersaurus]

I thikn this just brings up a valid issue for some people - non-standard custom abilities, that are distinctly different from official cards.

I'm glad this came up early in the Barracks.

For me and my approach - I like it when a unit is thematic, and has abiltities which follow that theme, even if they are a bit "different" or have restrictions/paramaters that are slightly different from official ones.

Remember, if we stick with all-official-similar abilities, customs will get boring very quick. There is only so much variety in official-ish abilities, which really don;t strain the rules system that much at all, because they have a requirement of making them playable by 10 year olds.

Custom designers don;t have that restriction (yeaaah!) :thumbsup: since (AFAIK) they are intended to be played by people who take a less-official approach towards the game.

While I understand uncas14's critique (and thank you for giving it to us, with your 3rd post even!), I don't think it is a FLAW in the unit, as much as it is a difference in TASTE.
We certainly can wish a particular custom was designed slightly differently, but does tht mean that it is wrong/bad if it doesn't meet our idea of what it should be?

How much of a vote of Yes is saying "The custom is almost perfect" and how much of a Yes is "It is a solid custom, balanced, creative, and/or looks good." :?:

[yagyuninja]

I want to vote yes (haven't voted yet), but I also wish the wording was more official. Things like "remove one wound marker" instead of "gains 1 life", and "devourer" instead of "wolf".

Other than that I like her, and I really appreciate easy to find figures. Really really.

[uncas14]

It is mostly a matter of taste that I voted no. I thought that that was what the 'No, for other reasons' option was for. I don't think that this custom is too powerful nor too weak, it just doesn't 'feel' right to me. I think that it would 'feel' better if Blood Drinker did one of the two following:

Worked against any adjacent unit
I realize that, logically, this would make little sense. How can someone drink blood from a robot? However, it would fit in with the simple rules of the game better. There are several such powers that exist in the game that don't make much sense (Marro Plague works on marros, WTF?).

or

Worked only against humans
Humans are the traditional 'targets' of vampires, and as such I think that this option can be truly justified. If other species besides humans were to be allowed, several potential problems arise. The list would be long and unwieldy, interrupting the flow of play to see if Blood Drinker works against a certain unit. Certainly new species who have blood to drink will appear in future expansions, not to mention the different customs that people play with. The list of species would keep growing and growing. But, if it only worked against humans, I doubt that there would be many people questioning the soundness of logic of this power.

Personally, I like the second option, as not only does it make sense logically and keep the rules clutter to a minimum, but also I think that it conveys the theme of the unit very well. A Death Dealer is to be feared by werewolves and humans both. This is all just my opinion of course.

[Fallen Templar]

Reaper can you post a picture of Selene the fig that may help

[Rhydderch]

The Treant Woodlord was from the days at .NET even before the HQ. It was part of a custom contest.

I vote yes for the Woodlord but agree with Reaper that it should come with the Wood Woads for the sake of completion. Both the lord and the woads have very well made cards and use fairly easy-to-get figures. They are well balanced and well written as well.

[Rhydderch]

First of all I voted yes. I have a minor nit-pick which I have included below along with an explanation of why "wolf" was the right word to use in the Blood Drinker ability.

Yagyu: The Anubian Wolves are "wolves" and Khosumet is a "wolf" if you look at their card. So Annerios was right to use the word wolf since that is their race, much like Sgt Drake is from the human race. Devourer is their type. Just like Sgt Drake is a soldier.

Otherwise I do agree that the gains life could be improved:

When attacking, Selene may remove 1 wound marker from this card for every wound she inflicts on an adjacent Human, Wolf or Vampire figure.

I'll post this in Annerios' customs thread.

[InfinityMax]

Maybe we'll do the Wood Woads for the next vote, so they can be next to each other in the display thread.

[Rhydderch]

Cool. Thanks Imax.

[Grungebob]

And I make 13!!

[shakey_snake]

I voted:
No, for other reasons.

I think it's a fundamental for a picture of figure to be on the card.
I'm all about above average card craftsmanship, like silverstoner, Euyrons and atmospro's, but they still have pics of the figs on the cards.
Heck, the fig can even be stylized, as long as the fig is there.

[yagyuninja]

Yagyu: The Anubian Wolves are "wolves" and Khosumet is a "wolf" if you look at their card. So Annerios was right to use the word wolf since that is their race, much like Sgt Drake is from the human race. Devourer is their type. Just like Sgt Drake is a soldier.
Ah, cool. I just didn't look at the card. Thanks for clearing that up.


Otherwise I do agree that the gains life could be improved:

When attacking, Selene may remove 1 wound marker from this card for every wound she inflicts on an adjacent Human, Wolf or Vampire figure.

I'll post this in Annerios' customs thread.
Alright, good deal. With that I would vote yes. And I will.

[reapersaurus]

I voted:
No, for other reasons.

I think it's a fundamental for a picture of figure to be on the card.
I'm all about above average card craftsmanship, like silverstoner, Euyrons and atmospro's, but they still have pics of the figs on the cards.
Heck, the fig can even be stylized, as long as the fig is there.thanks for the opinion.

I am adamantly opposed to a specific figure ON THE CARD being required for a custom to be considered playable.

There are many customs cards & concepts that do not have a specific figure that has been made, or have multiple figures that could work, or don't even have a figure required! :shock: (see my Revenant card for an example - he simply raises your killed reanimated-by-vengeance hero from the dead)

Selene is an licensed character - there is NOT going to likely be a pre-painted plastic cheap figure made of her in HS scale.
Does that mean that appropriate figures are not available and this solid card is unplayable?
No.

Here are some choices:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Selene_vs_Wolves.jpg
http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/628283a.jpg
http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/a015_dionne.jpg

I think there may even be an upcoming HorrorClix fig or somesuch that would work fine. The key is - there is not one specific figure that is required to play Selene - I think the most appropriate one is simply an extra female Krav Maga.

shakey - do you believe that the card would be best served by having a picture of the female Krav Maga figure on the card?
I strongly feel that a great picture of Selene, the character, gets across the card and character the best.

[shakey_snake]

see, heres the problem:
http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/628283a.jpg
Is the cape hitable? the card's hitzone never specifies.
If you put a figure on the card, there's no confusion.
You could put the female Krav on there, but then there's a problem: is that fig the female Krav or Selene?


-------------
And reaper, if you have adamant opinions about this, you might want to consider it a warning sign: you probably have too many opinions.

[reapersaurus]

see, heres the problem:
http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/628283a.jpg
Is the cape hitable? the card's hitzone never specifies.
If you put a figure on the card, there's no confusion.
You could put the female Krav on there, but then there's a problem: is that fig the female Krav or Selene?You sound like you haven't played HS much with adults. Cause from my experience with playing against them, these would be non-issues.

Here's the way it goes with people who like to play HS for FUN:

"I'm playing this fig as Selene, OK?"
"Sure. Looks nice."
(later, in play)
"So can you see Selene to shoot at her?"
"I don't know - I can only see a bit of her cape. Can I shoot at her?"
"What do you think?"
"Oh - yeah - duh."

And if a customs player can't figure out a way to play the female Krav as Selene (either by marking it somehow or I don't know.... how about not playing the Krav alongside this unmodified Selene-proxy figure?) then I doubt they are that interested in playing customs.

Again, thanks for your opinions and approach, as different as it is from mine.
And no thank you, I'm fully able to have my strong opinion that a fig should not be required on a card to be considered playable... BY ME.
Thanks a lot for dictating my opinions to me. :roll:

[Grungebob]

I agree with Reaper here. Too many of you guys over think the whole custom "spirit". It is all about experimentation/imagination/ and good times. The group I play with in Texas, we could put a lump of crap on the table and call it Crapwalker 20,000 and the guys would jump in and see how the figure performs. If the custom stinks and they lose? Eh! So what set em up and let's try it again.

[Rhydderch]

The need for a figure is more of a personal and game group choice I think since it depends on personal preference.

For me I have to agree with Reaper. Many of the best customs out there have hard to find figures (like the $60 Rackham minis) so that many of us use substitute figures anyway. So for me the availability of appropriate miniatures is more important than the specific figure used on the card (or lack thereof).

Plus I've resorted to some pretty lame substitutes in the past. You know its bad when the only miniatures you have are from the HeroQuest basic game and you start to substitute Go pieces - yes the black and white round stones with NO DISTINGUISHING FEATURES other than the ability to stack two of them if you have a magnetic travel version! =P

(Well I also threw in Lego pieces and figures from those dinosaur grab bags and whatever else I could find. I seem to recall giant Ninja Turtles romping through at times! )

[Su-Bak-Na]

I said yes for no particular reason.

[skyknight]

I did vote no on this one simply because I do not like these kind of figs. I am not big on superhero/ movie customs. I do not know why exactly but I just do not generally like them. Someone was suggesting sportsclix a while back as customs, I about gagged on that one. while this figure is a little better I still do not like these kind of customs. Sorry, its a personal thing I guess. I would have said yes had it been a different fig or custom unit that was not straight from Hollywood.

[bunjee]

And I think that you should notify the makers when you nominate their units!!!!

I almost missed this! Thank you thank you thank you.

The powers and plans were really Elstree's idea and I'm sad he can't see the nomination. The figs were pretty cheap and easy to get, the woodwoads that team with the treant are a common d&d fig. I was able to get the treant for anywhere from $5 to $8 on ebay.

I haven't had a chance to read through the feedback on this, can the people who voted no let me know the reasons?

I also need to review and see if this is the revised point card. I haven't had a chance to play with these units in a really long time.

[InfinityMax]

Well, this one is a clear winner. I'm going to go ahead and put it in the Barracks, and start a thread for the Wood Woads.

[InfinityMax]

Bunjee and Elstree created the Woodwoad Warriors as part of a team, along with the Treant. The figures are D&D Minis.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10007/woodwoadcard.jpg

[reapersaurus]

They are designed to go with this Woodlord:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10007/treantcard.jpg

So seeing the other card should help understand the way the abilities are designed to go together.

Now, I don;t think they have to be voted into the Barracks necessarily, (since each is an independant vote), but to understand this card's context, ya gotta consult the WoodLord unit.

[justjohn]

I voted yes. Aside from being obvious support for a custom figure already in the Barracks, they offer bonding for Jotun. I don't theink Jotun *NEEDS* bonding, per se, but now there is a unit that offers it. By themselves, they are so-so, but with either the Treelord or Jotun, they are worth their points, imo.

[Widigo]

I'm saying yes. They have a great custom card/stats, that I feel will would be fun to play, being a support card is also good I like support strategies.

The only problem I see is that from the looks of thing they are all the same figure. This is a pet peeve of mine and that few figures can escape, boil them and bend there appendages, or give them separate weapons. Having only one flaw earns them a big fat YES.

Widigo

[Rhydderch]

Voted yes on the Wood Woads. Cool card with good synergy with the Treant Woodlord and now Jotun as well.

[uncas14]

I think I'm gonna have to vote no, for being underpowered. They seem best compared to the Knights, also at 70 points. Both have a movement of 4, range of 1, attack of 3, and bonding. Wrack and Ruin Enhancement seems to be on about the same power level as A Coward's Reward. The biggest difference that I see is the Woodwoads' defense of 2 with Ironwood compared to the Knights' defense of 4. The Woodwoads' have the upper hand in defense capability, but I don't think that it is so much better that they should have only 3 units instead of 4. There is a big difference between a 3-man squad and a 4-man squad. I do love that they work well with the Treant. If they had a movement of 5 so they could better keep up with him, then their cost of 70 would be much more justified, I think.

[InfinityMax]

Well, this could not have been more close - one more vote either way would have settled this for good. Unfortunately, after two days, Selene has not met the minimum 67% requirement for entry into the Barracks, so voting on Selene is officially closed.

[InfinityMax]

Fallen Templar brings us Agnar, the Black Knight. The figure on the card is a Mage Knight figure, appropriately titled The Black Knight, available from everythingmageknight for around eighty bucks.

Due to the price of the Black Knight figure, discussion regarding alternate figures would be welcome.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h37/Fallen_Templar7/Agnar6.jpg

[InfinityMax]

I hate to say it, but I voted no. The thing is, at 140 points, his stats are weak. He has some interesting abilities, and if properly honed and priced, this might be a really cool custom. I tend to think that the first ability is too vague, with no limit on the numbers of times it can be used. He's got decent stats, but I think Krug would eat him like a peanut M&M, and cost 20 points less, to boot.

I would like to see a revised version of this card. I actually own a black knight figure.

[justjohn]

There is the Dread Knight figure from one of the D&D mini sets, it's common, I'll look for the figure. It would be a good stand in.

http://www.vesivus.com/eBay/dndminis/AF_Dread_Guard.jpg
It is around 5 bucks, I think it is from one of the earlier sets.

[Rhydderch]

I voted no because the abilities for Agnar have too many problems currently.

As Imax said Aura of Fear is too vague. In addition it is broken. It says you can use the power at any time in the turn. The way I read it Agnar can move one space and use his aura then move another space and use aura again, etc. It says any time during the turn which would include between moves. At this rate he could potentially move a figure 5 spaces until it fell into a pool of lava! Or even 2-3 figures since it affects each engaged figure.

Unholy advance should be limited to when he receives a wound from a normal or special attack. It is excessive for him to move whenever he is attacked and should NOT activate when he receives a leaving engagement attack. Otherwise he could start his move adjacent to two figures, get attacked by both and move an extra 10 spaces (one for each engagement attack) on top of his regular move for a total of 15!

Its a decent card but it definitely needs some adjustments. Not going to tackle the aura now because I have to make food but I would try this for the Unholy Advance:

Whenever Agnar receives a wound from a normal attack, he may move up to 5 spaces.

[Fallen Templar]

wow thanks for the helpful advice on the black knight if by some miracle he gets in I'll update his stats and if he dosen't, well helpful advice on my part I'll have a better custom for later :D

[reapersaurus]

I do not think this card should have been nominated.

There are 4 typos on it, it uses a very expensive (and visually unimpressive) figure when there are many other cheaper black knight figs out there, and the powers are not clean from a rules standpoint.

For me, the abilities don't match the theme, but that's a personal subjective criteria. When I think Black Knight, I think badass that will HURT YOU.
Not make you step back, or be really fast when he's attacked. :shrug:

Fallen Templar has better units than this IIRC.
Maybe we'll get a later one of his in the Barracks, but it kinda concerns me that anyone would think this is remotely a playable figure, one of the best HS customs made. :?:

[Fallen Templar]

Reaper I find your opinion helpful and insightful. this unit will definately get a power and stat make over. Aura of Fear will be revised and I'll add abilities which will him make a beatstick. Naming those powers will be a problem but hey I write I'll think of something eventually....

[reapersaurus]

Reaper I find your opinion helpful and insightful. this unit will definately get a power and stat make over. Aura of Fear will be revised and I'll add abilities which will him make a beatstick.Good man. :thumbsup:

Give 'em some offensive abilities to go with the whole Black Knight vibe.

Is he supposed to be an anti-paladin? think of some negative morale-based powers.

And maybe a cheaper fig that's easier to get.
Like this Blackguard on a Nightmare:
http://www.vesivus.com/eBay/dndminis/WQ_Blackguard_on_Nightmare.jpg
;)

[Fallen Templar]

The Hell Horse, good suggestion but I have a unit for this figure in production. I may toss Aura of Fear to this unit and redo the Knight compleatly

[skyknight]

Easy enough to do a sir denrick repaint as well to make this guy. This guy is a bit overcosted for me though. Change him up a bit and I think he will do just fine later on. :)

edit: in case you are wondering who the dumbass was who voted overpowered it was me. Pushed the wrong button :lol: Underpowered was what I meant.

[Rhydderch]

LoL Skyknight. =)

As for the figure DnD has several figures which would work as stand-ins for the Black Knight. Helmed Horror and the Dread Knight are two examples that come quickly to mind.

A repaint of Sir Denrick, or better, one Knight of Weston would work well too.

[Fallen Templar]

Skyknight your not alone someone voted overpowered also

[bunjee]

I think I'm gonna have to vote no, for being underpowered. They seem best compared to the Knights, also at 70 points. Both have a movement of 4, range of 1, attack of 3, and bonding. Wrack and Ruin Enhancement seems to be on about the same power level as A Coward's Reward. The biggest difference that I see is the Woodwoads' defense of 2 with Ironwood compared to the Knights' defense of 4. The Woodwoads' have the upper hand in defense capability, but I don't think that it is so much better that they should have only 3 units instead of 4. There is a big difference between a 3-man squad and a 4-man squad. I do love that they work well with the Treant. If they had a movement of 5 so they could better keep up with him, then their cost of 70 would be much more justified, I think.You have good points here. I wouldn't want to change anything without asking Elstree, and he won't be back until November. I think it would be an increase in the move over adding another fig to the squad, but I'm not sure. Honestly, we didn't get enough playtesting of these units, but they play pretty well as they stand.

I hope they don't call castle bits ruins at all, we'd need to re-work the wording.

[bunjee]

I would still like it if the people who voted no would put up their feedback.

[InfinityMax]

An easy win for the Woodwoads puts them into the Barracks. Thanks to all who voted!

[InfinityMax]

Sorry, Templar, this one does not make the cut. I personally think it could, with a little more work and some good old fashioned feedback, this could be pretty solid. I'm closing the voting here and moving on to the next one.

[InfinityMax]

Another one by Fallen Templar, the Bearers of the Way.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10058/Bearers_of_The_Way3.jpg

These are pretty obviously Mage Knight figures. Anyone know which ones?

[Fallen Templar]

They are Arjen the lightbringer and the Paladin Preist from Nexus

[reapersaurus]

Although these have creative abilities, they simply are too easy to pick off with any ranged unit.
On average, it takes one shot from a 2-attack-die figure to take them out (50 points each figure).

[Fallen Templar]

Well their is a newer version of the bearers that is cost at 70 points
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h37/Fallen_Templar7/bearersoftheway.jpg

[Rhydderch]

I vote no because Protect the Faithful needs clarification of what normal and non-normal terrain are. At the moment it leaves too much open to interpretation.

For instance a figure on a snow tile might ignore the slippery effects but what does the snow tile count as? Is it a rock tile or a grass tile? Or is it a snow tile that simply does not have slippery? Those can affect the game especially with figures such as Nerak.

Also how do we know what is considered normal terrain? Water is pretty "normal" and came in the Master Set so are figures still stopped by it or can they continue their move?

One alternative might be to change the ability to read:

All figures you control within 4 clear sight spaces of a Bearer of the Way may ignore all special terrain effects.

Which would mean the figures may still move through water and lava. The tiles would remain the same however so the Lava dudes would retain their lava bonus or water weakness - basically abilities on the card would remain since the terrain would stay the same. Its only the terrain effects which would be counteracted.

[netherspirit]

I voted no as wel. They are far too weak, I would never see myself spending 70 points on them when they will likely die in one turn. I think in an effort try and balance out their somewhat powerful abilities you have made them too weak. Just my http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/Smilies/twocents.gif

[skyknight]

I am voting yes on these guys at 7 points. I think some people have put up some valid points but I think this specials on these guys are pretty creative. while not a giant thumbs up I will say run with this one at 70 points.

[Karkadinn]

I voted no because of all the stuff everyone else said that I agree with. :D
Man, it's nice to make a lazy post every once in a while. ;)

[shakey_snake]

I voted no because of the REPENT!! power.

Infringes on "Spirit of the Game", IMO.

[InfinityMax]

I voted yes.

I'm not saying this is a perfect custom. The point about the 'normal terrain' thing is the first thing I saw. However, I think the two powers - Repent and Death to Xenos - are extremely cool. If you're willing to risk them a little, they can let you crack a tough offense, and they can also boost a weak defense. Granted, they are probably going to be targeted before the dudes they're defending, but that's how it goes, right?

Anyway, it's not an ideal custom, and it has problems, but I would allow it, and I might even use it.

[InfinityMax]

Annerios brings us two customs that go hand in hand - the Alien and the Alien Queen. These will be voted in or out as a package - your 'yes' or 'no' vote applies to both.

There are Alien figures available now, but there will be even better options in a month or two, once Horrorclix comes out.

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Alien_Queen.jpg

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Alien_Warriors.jpg

[netherspirit]

I voted yes even though I would not play them. I am not a big fan of liscensed figures in heroscape.

They are playable though, so I gave it a yes even though I would not play them. :P To avoid this being a popularity contest as reaper has dubbed it...

[Rhydderch]

I voted yes. These are well-made customs and I do not particularly mind the licensed aspect either.

[InfinityMax]

I also said yes. I am not sure I would use them, but I would certainly allow them, especially once we have some good figures for them.

[reapersaurus]

A solid No on these ones, for the serious reasons I have repeatedly detailed in their customs threads.

1) The figures for these are virtually unobtainable currently. IIRC, it is solely one intermittent Ebay supplier for the Queen, and no warrior figs available currently.
The HorrorClix ones will be very expensive, unfortunately - they sounded like the perfect solution, but $40 for 6 or 7 figures is beyond the range of most customs players.

2) They are a licensed movie character. While I don't have a problem with that, if Selene is voted down directly because of that, these guys need to be too.

3) They are overcosted by almost double.
The Queen has less power than 1 Krav Maga Agent.
Queen's Orders is simply crappy bonding - not worth many points.
Queen's Blood is the only good ability, and it requires her to be wounded, and is negated by ranged figs shooting her up.

The Alien Warriors are hardly even as good as Tarn Vikings, with less defense and most importantly only 3 figures. They may be worth 50 points, as a stretch.

I know people love Aliens here - it's unavoidable - but these units just need their costs adjusted severely.
Literally, if the costs were 100 points for the Queen and 50 points for the Warriors, I'd vote yes, even with the figure expense, since this license is ridiculously rare to find pre-painted minis of, but if you have them, they would be playable at a seriously reduced cost.

Oh - I forgot 2 things:
IIRC Doc Savage's Alien cards include a necessary ability for Aliens: their ability to be created from their Queen.
Without that feature, any Queen HS unit is divorced from her most critical thematic ability. But since thematic connection is a subjective criteria, this wouldn't disqualify the card from being a solid playable custom. The point cost makes these unplayable in comparison to other official units, sadly. :(

[Rhydderch]

2) They are a licensed movie character. While I don't have a problem with that, if Selene is voted down directly because of that, these guys need to be too.

I understand your other two points Reaper but I do not see why you would count this against the Aliens. Just because one or two people voted no on Selene because she is a licensed character does not mean you need to as well. When YOU vote its a question of whether YOU think the custom is playable, not what you think other people think of the custom.

I assume the other two points were more important in your decision and that is cool. I just hope you will not let another person's opinion on the licensed characters overturn your own, especially since there was only one person who voted no on Selene because of the license issue. Another one or two voted no because of the lack of a figure on the card.

More (the majority I believe) voted no because of the unorthodox ability descriptions.

[reapersaurus]

As I mentioned, the licensed character aspect didn't cause me to vote No.
The other points I detailed did.

I mentioned it as a point of order - if Selene was declared not playable quality because she was a licensed character from a movie (which was the reason for at least 2 no votes, as mentioned in that thread by skyknight and one other) than I would expect at least 2 no votes from those voters on this figure as well.

I would also expect some no votes from the difficulty/cost of obtaining a figure to play these Aliens.

But the real reason I voted no was because they are simply overcosted, for the reasons I detailed.
One squad and their Queen is 240 points.
They would go down in 2 or 3 hails of fire from the 4th Mass or Krav Maga, likely, and might take out 1 or 2 of those squad figures.

[Doc_Savage]

A solid No on these ones, for the serious reasons I have repeatedly detailed in their customs threads.

1) The figures for these are virtually unobtainable currently. IIRC, it is solely one intermittent Ebay supplier for the Queen, and no warrior figs available currently.

The queen is easy to get - here is a buy it now for $10.80 - shipping included!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Konami-Alien-Selection-Queen_W0QQitemZ130003123737QQihZ003QQcategoryZ153QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

The Konami Queen is easy to get. The warriors are harder, but I managed to 6 of them easily enough. I did have to paint the warriors (the Konami Queen comes painted), but these paint as easy as can be. Just a base coat of black and some dark green.

The HorrorClix ones will be very expensive, unfortunately - they sounded like the perfect solution, but $40 for 6 or 7 figures is beyond the range of most customs players.

I have a feeling that this will surely include a queen. And I will be buying 2 packs.

2) They are a licensed movie character. While I don't have a problem with that, if Selene is voted down directly because of that, these guys need to be too.

I think that just doesn't make any sense. As far as I could see, there was only ONE person that posted that they voted against Selene because of the Movie tie in kind of thing.

3) They are overcosted by almost double.
The Queen has less power than 1 Krav Maga Agent.
Queen's Orders is simply crappy bonding - not worth many points.
Queen's Blood is the only good ability, and it requires her to be wounded, and is negated by ranged figs shooting her up.

The Alien Warriors are hardly even as good as Tarn Vikings, with less defense and most importantly only 3 figures. They may be worth 50 points, as a stretch.

I know people love Aliens here - it's unavoidable - but these units just need their costs adjusted severely.

I voted yes.

[Su-Bak-Na]

My other reason is I stick with the offical units and will only use them.

[yagyuninja]

Not to be rude or anything, but maybe you shouldn't vote on the playability of customs then, Su-Bak-Na.

Or do you just mean "official-seeming" units? I also like customs that are closer to the official theme (though I have some that aren't), but I think these aliens are playable.

[reapersaurus]

I agree - if someone only uses official units, than they should refrain from voting in custom unit polls - it skews the results.

Doc Savage - thanks for the link for the Queen.

[InfinityMax]

Sadly, time is up on the Bearers, and they didn't make the cut. Voting is finished on this, though comments can continue at will.

[InfinityMax]

Netherspirit brings us Hæther. The figure is a Mage Knight figure - again, any hint as to its identity would be most welcome.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-haether.jpg
Blood Priestess 069 - $0.49 (http://gamingetc.safeshopper.com/1319/13820.htm?487)

edited by netherspirit, added the link to the figure and fixed her name in the title.

[netherspirit]

It appears as though she is missing the target image. Hmmmm not sure how that one slipped past me. I will add that tonight and repost the image.

I will vote yes for own unit, only after I make one crucial change to the blood counters. Don't get me wrong she is playable with the right combination of support units, its just that I would like to see her a little more consistent with her Magic.

The blood magic needs to be either changed to "add one counter for each wound she inflicts." instead of one and only one no, matter how many wounds she inflicts. Without that change she is too weak and never gets enough Magic Counters to be as tricky as I want her.

Or give her more magic counters. I haven't decided yet. But during testing she died before she could do anything cool.

I was really looking for a way to manipulate the new counters that Hasbro gave us. Hæther can remove Experience counters from the samurai, if she is willing to get that close, as well as Negation Counters when your opponents Morsbane decides to work on your figures.

Also, the polls run for 2 days right? Thanks for putting mine up the day before a holiday, when I suspect our attendance will be WAY down over the next couple of days. :P

[toddrew]

Voted yes.

Of course, this is all being said w/o actually having playtested the figure:

If anything I would say that she would be too weak of stats in many cases to take advantage of her special abilities - doesn't seem to be much fear of her "breaking" the balance of the game.

Great candidate for offensive boosting characters (Taelord, Finn, etc.), with height and the right situation, she could get off a fairly strong attack.

Seems to be a difficult figure to play - lots of strategy involved with maxing her abilities, these are the figures I most enjoy playing! Good construction Nether.


Also, just to be sure I'm reading the "Theft" ability correctly: could she remove Finn or Thorgrim's spirits, as well as things like Morsbane's negation markers and Tagawa experience markers?


EDIT: also a configuration of my wife's name, though I'm not sure she would appreciate the characterization :lol:

[netherspirit]

Also, just to be sure I'm reading the "Theft" ability correctly: could she remove Finn or Thorgrim's spirits, as well as things like Morsbane's negation markers and Tagawa experience markers?

I am pretty sure the spirits aren't markers or counters. Although that is an interesting concept and would be cool, and probably require a wording change, I think I will leave it at just markers and counters. But she could remove the negation and experience counters. That was the reason I made her :) She can remove order markers too. :)

I think it needs to read any non-wound markers or counters. The official stuff is all called Markers, but a lot of custom things use "counters"

[toddrew]

I am pretty sure the spirits aren't markers or counters. But she could remove the negation and experience counters. That was the reason I made her :)

That's what I thought, but wasn't sure if there was some concise definition of "marker" that would include anything on a card other than what one reasonably considers markers (wound, grenade, negation, experience, etc.)

That's how I viewed her as well (funny, that's how you intended her :D ) - excellent counter to Morsbane. Were you negated once too often :?: ;)

EDIT: just read your edit to your post :) - I hadn't even thought of order markers. Still doesn't make her too powerful (look at all the consternation over Dund), as she is a relatively weak offensive character, yet all her abilities are based on her being able to inflict wounds. Well balanced character, again I say :)

[toddrew]

Also, I've been mulling the Blood-Filled Goblet ability over:

Blood-Filled Goblet
At the end of the turn you may remove 4 blood markers from this card, to remove all wound markers from this card.

Have you tried playing her where this ability would allow her to remove one wound marker at a 1:1 for any amount of blood markers she has (up to 4 obviously ;) )? With her relatively low offensive stats I would think this would be a better (and still point cost conscious) way of having her stick around. Sorta analogous to the Marro Warriors' cloning ability, but in her case if her attack is successful she has the option to heal. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it would be very difficult for her to accumulate 4 blood markers. Maybe that's your point :)

[netherspirit]

Also, I've been mulling the Blood-Filled Goblet ability over:

Blood-Filled Goblet
At the end of the turn you may remove 4 blood markers from this card, to remove all wound markers from this card.

Have you tried playing her where this ability would allow her to remove one wound marker at a 1:1 for any amount of blood markers she has (up to 4 obviously ;) )? With her relatively low offensive stats I would think this would be a better (and still point cost conscious) way of having her stick around. Sorta analogous to the Marro Warriors' cloning ability, but in her case if her attack is successful she has the option to heal. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it would be very difficult for her to accumulate 4 blood markers. Maybe that's your point :)

Hmm...that could be another fix to the small problems that came up during playtesting.

That gives me three options,

1. Make the blood markers come on for each wound.
2. Keep it that she only gets one for inflicting wounds, but give her more markers.
3. Make the Blood Filled Goblet like the bloody Knife.

I think any of those three would fix her and make her more consistent.

Too bad she got nominated before I could fix this minor problem and make the changes that need to be made. :?

[reapersaurus]

Yeah, I've always questioned whether she's worth the points in play, but it seems close enough to give her a flyer draft pick and try her out - the abilities are very thematic, and seem to work mechanically, and are creative.

:thumbsup:

And the figure is from Mage Knight, Sorcery - called Blood Priestess.

[toddrew]

That gives me three options,

1. Make the blood markers come on for each wound.
2. Keep it that she only gets one for inflicting wounds, but give her more markers.
3. Make the Blood Filled Goblet like the bloody Knife.



Woof, I completely skipped over the first line of Blood Magic - her starting with 4 markers :oops:

I still think that Blood-Filled Goblet should have the similar mechanic of Bloody Knife.

But if it's too late for changes, still an intriguing figure.

[justjohn]

I think you could do both 1 and 3 and still keep her at her current cost.

I've always thought this had everything going for it to make it a really great custom: creative abilites that all work together and a cheap, awesome figure to represent them.

I've already voted yes, on the assumption that the changes are forthcoming.

[netherspirit]

I don't know what the rules are for making changes to cards once they have been nominated. If its not against the rules of the Barracks, I will make the changes tonight as well as add the ever-elusive target image :)

[netherspirit]

I would be interested to see the reasons for the no vote.

[Rhydderch]

I don't know what the rules are for making changes to cards once they have been nominated. If its not against the rules of the Barracks, I will make the changes tonight as well as add the ever-elusive target image :)

You bring up a good point about how the Barracks should handle changes made to the card. Hopefully JJ or Imax can get back to you on this one.

In the meantime I'll vote yes for the card. I expect she'll only get better when you fix her up and I always liked the abilities she had - very thematic and playable =)

[justjohn]

I have no problem with people changing typos, or abilities wording to work alittle bit better, I really don't mind small stat changes/ability changes either.

I think that is part of the process. Not every custom submitted for these is 100% ready, I understand that.

I would *rather* see only completed customs here, but sometimes things need to be fixed.

On a side note, if someone votes before you "fix" your custom, that vote is already cast, regardless if your fix sways their opinion. I think that is a fair penalty for having to change something.

[netherspirit]

I also should have been paying attention to the Nomination thread to see when she was coming up so I could have fixed her before the voting thread was put up. Oh well, I have had changes in mind since I tested her when I made her, but never got around to fixing the card....

[justjohn]

I think we should add a rule that if you nominate something, you also have to pm the creator, just in case there are any changes that need to be made and/or the most recent version of the card is the one that is nominated.

[InfinityMax]

Do it, Nether! Change her! We're not looking for purity in the voting process, we're trying to get good customs in the Barracks. If she's got problems, fix 'em. Even if she would get in without the edits, I would rather put the repaired version in the Barracks, because this is about customs you can use, not customs that are preserved for posterity.

[reapersaurus]

IOn a side note, if someone votes before you "fix" your custom, that vote is already cast, regardless if your fix sways their opinion. I think that is a fair penalty for having to change something.This is the perrfect approach, IMO. :thumbsup:

[Grungebob]

Should we add a voting option for changes?

Yes
Yes but would like some changes
no over
no under
no other

[netherspirit]

Changes made. These changes should make her more more playable than she already was. This will give her a little more staying power as well as up the opportunities to get Blood Markers and use her Crazy Blood Priestess Trickery.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-haether.jpg

[reapersaurus]

You can target her knife and the bottom part of her cup? ;)

And I just had a thought - you should make her exposed-body parts like her bare midriff to be untargetable - the Heroscape version of - oh what's that old D&D joke? Chainmail Bikini Armor? Where the more flesh and body parts of a female that's exposed, makes it harder for her to be hit? :lol:

[netherspirit]

I wil fix the Target Image. Thought I got everything.

What are the rules for getting voted in? 13 yeses out of 20 total?

With tommorow being a holiday she might get screwed out of the Barracks because of a lack of votes :(

[reapersaurus]

Is there any way to see who voted? :D

We could figure out which customs fans aren't around... :)

[skyknight]

Like it, voted yes, exhausted after work, thats all your gettin for now :?

[Karkadinn]

I would vote yea for it only under the condition that she be made more durable or cheaper in draft points. She's just too easy to kill as is, IMHO.

[netherspirit]

I would vote yea for it only under the condition that she be made more durable or cheaper in draft points. She's just too easy to kill as is, IMHO.

I think with the new wording on the Blood-Filled Goblet she is more durable than she previously was. Even before the change she was pretty fun to play, even if you only go to use her powers once because of the limitations. Now with the changes I made, I think that her less than durable nature balances by the fact that she can have 6 Attack or remove Order Markers and other markers, or remove some of or all of her wound markers.

I was comparing her with Morsbane in cost. Sure his powers are more devastating but they are luck based. She can get 6 attack and likely refill her blood markers and then remove any wounds. You just have to play her smart.

Plus the Theft power is way too cool, removing the Negation Marker is great! Also crippling the new samurai and removing Order Markers (no luck) is too powerful, even if it does require adjacency, for someone who can stay on the feild for a loooong time. I had to balance her powers somehow....

[InfinityMax]

Nether, if the voting doesn't go to 20 votes, it comes down to having a 2/3 yes vote. I think you're safe - unless 5 more people vote no before anyone votes yes, you're a shoe-in.

[Fallen Templar]

She's missing a Hit Zone... but thats a quick fix i gave her a yes

[netherspirit]

She's missing a Hit Zone... but thats a quick fix i gave her a yes

Refresh.

Also, I would be curious to know why the three people voted no, perhaps some insight could help refine the card even more?

[Doc_Savage]

Voted yes. I was waiting for the fixes which improve her. I would have voted yes anyway, but wanted to see how she turned out.

[Agent Minivann]

You can target her knife and the bottom part of her cup? ;)

And I just had a thought - you should make her exposed-body parts like her bare midriff to be untargetable - the Heroscape version of - oh what's that old D&D joke? Chainmail Bikini Armor? Where the more flesh and body parts of a female that's exposed, makes it harder for her to be hit? :lol:

I saw an old dragonmirth in a dragon magazine from around 1990 that had some girl in a chainmail bikini that had about a 100 arrows sticking in it. She is in the process of saying something like "luckily I was wearing my armor." I tried to find it, but no such luck.

[K/H_Addict]

i havent voted yet. i want to be clear about it's abilities.

"...every wound inflicted..."
This does include 1 hit kills on squads right? (IE: i kill my opponents Venoc Vipers. do i get a marker?)

Can i use my own figures to get markers? (IE: I drafted her as well as Venoc Vipers. I kill my own vipers. do i get markers?)

[netherspirit]

i havent voted yet. i want to be clear about it's abilities.

"...every wound inflicted..."
This does include 1 hit kills on squads right? (IE: i kill my opponents Venoc Vipers. do i get a marker?)

Can i use my own figures to get markers? (IE: I drafted her as well as Venoc Vipers. I kill my own vipers. do i get markers?)

#1 - Does DW8K get to attack again after killing a squad figure? Yes. This is worded in the same fashion so it works the same way.

#2 - Yes, there is no restriction to enemy figures in the power.

[K/H_Addict]

#1 - Does DW8K get to attack again after killing a squad figure? Yes. This is worded in the same fashion so it works the same way.

Do I own DW8K? No. sorry.

thanks nether for the answer, and i will go vote yes now.

[netherspirit]

Do I own DW8K? No. sorry.

:P

[K/H_Addict]

i did own him. i have never been a fan of soulborgs (1 life? not for a hero) so i traded him away to a friend who loved them. Then, come one day trying out happyj (where has he been?) modification to the draft rules (pick cards at random and go from there) i got DW8K and killed krug in 1 turn and regretted trading him ever since. Needless to say i will not be trading Major Q9 any time soon.

I voted yes for Heather. I like the concept of the blood markers, and i think it was costed just right

[reapersaurus]

Well, she does have effectively 8 Life, since she starts with 4 Blood MArkers.

On the other hand, she isn't likely to get any more Blood COunters since she only has 2 attack.
If she has to expend Blood Markers to get enough attack dice to inflict wounds, than that's still a draw on her Blood Counter pool.

If she got 1 Blood Marker each round, like other "Gift of Magic" units do, in addition to when she inflicts Wounds, it may help to not have her supply run out so quickly. She's a very substandard unit if she doesn;t have Blood Markers of course.

[InfinityMax]

These are a great example of a cooperative creation. Euryon came up with the abilities and stats, Truth made the card, and DrinkMoreGuinness painted the figures (which, in case you're not sure, are Legionnaire repaints).

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10002/Praetorian_Guards.jpg

[Karkadinn]

These guys always seemed seriously underpowered to me, no offense to Euryon/Truth/DrinkMoreGuiness.... ;)

[ultradoug]

they are cool.

[Fallen Templar]

I have no problem with the unit but it being a repaint of a unit and with the complete repaint of the sheilds and the detail on the sheilds i had to vote no

[skyknight]

Just because it is painted that way does not neccesarily mean you have to copy it exactly does it? I voted no because I believe they may be a bit underpowered. At first I did not care for the Loyal at a price ability, that is a pretty good gamble, not that I mind that, but I would knock em down to 80 because of it. .......

You know what , that Einars Ward makes up for it a bit. I may have been a bit hasty on this one. Hey Imax is there a way to erase my vote of no underpowered and change it to a yes. This one is growin on me.

[Fallen Templar]

Just because it is painted that way does not neccesarily mean you have to copy it exactly does it?. Barracks Customs that you can use now... :wink:

[InfinityMax]

Not that I know of, Sky, but if it's close, we'll just remember your vote.

Personally, I think they're great. The gamble is not too bad - half the time you get a bonding, a fourth of the time you get to remove a wound, and one turn in four hurts your warlord.

Einar's Ward is AWESOME. Throw this, Jotun!

[Grungebob]

I have no problem with the unit but it being a repaint of a unit and with the complete repaint of the sheilds and the detail on the sheilds i had to vote noI think that is one of the craziest reasons in the world to vote no. What's next? Are we going to judge a unit on it's facial expression?

I think Einar's ward is the bomb and really makes these guys shine. I would draft them at 100 points in a game where the oposition was using units with spacial attacks galore.

[shakey_snake]

Just because it is painted that way does not neccesarily mean you have to copy it exactly does it?. Barracks Customs that you can use now... :wink:WEll, I can't use any of the already nominated units because I'd have to buy the figs first. By your logic this means I should have voted no on all of them.

[Karkadinn]

Just because it is painted that way does not neccesarily mean you have to copy it exactly does it?. Barracks Customs that you can use now... :wink:WEll, I can't use any of the already nominated units because I'd have to buy the figs first. By your logic this means I should have voted no on all of them.

There's a strong difference in ease of use factor. Buying a figure is basically expected as a minimum requirement. Painting is not, and many people lack painting skill.

[Fallen Templar]

I have no problem with the unit but it being a repaint of a unit and with the complete repaint of the sheilds and the detail on the sheilds i had to vote noI think that is one of the craziest reasons in the world to vote no. What's next? Are we going to judge a unit on it's facial expression?

I think Einar's ward is the bomb and really makes these guys shine. I would draft them at 100 points in a game where the oposition was using units with spacial attacks galore. I lack Painting Skills That really bothers me when i have a card in front of me with a great paint job and the figure which looks like it was painted by someone with minimium motors skills. Also it being underpowered was big problem also. the unit is also to much of a gamble for my taste.
Also I thought it was crazy that selene was kept out due being a movie chracter if i'm correct that is pretty ridiculus if you ask me... :)

[shakey_snake]

Painting is way easier than having to buy something, skill or no skill.

[Fallen Templar]

I'd rather drop cash then paint. If ya look at it this way I don't have a hobby brush so i have to buy that then paint, then a mat to paint on.... :roll: so much crap and wasted gas... :(

[josh-n-papa]

I loved these guys when they were first made.

Einar's ward makes them immune to Jotun's wild swing,Nilfheim's ice shard breath,Airborne Elite's grenades,the cowboys' shotgun blast,Deadeye Dan's enhanced rifle,Mimring's fireline,DW8000's rapid fire,DW9000's explosion attack, and Q9's queglix gun.


edit;
and by the way didn't they have a sticker design you could print out and use on the shields?

[Widigo]

"Barracks customs you can use now" my ass! I can not go out and, buy a Wiz Kid Miniature, but I can go out and, buy a kids paint set and forget the shield design.

Now also if I can go buy paint I can go buy a WK miniature right, wrong! They do not sell them around me because of the under popularity, but paint is sold everywhere without even having to type in my EBay screen name. This figure is easier obtained than some WK base switching I have seen in the barracks. They are nice looking, they are well coasted, and I think they deserve several yes's. Because, for one they are custom (I.E. someone did not buy a figure and give it a Heroscape base and sell it as a "custom" job), they are also a good set of figures. All that is missing would be if you could boil/bend a couple appendages and make them stand different from the Figures they are copied from. All in all they get my Yes! If you can not, or are not talented enough to paint these then LEARN, do you think DrinkMoreGuinness could have painted this the first time he picked up the brush.

Widigo

Off my Soap Box

A sticker should be made for them. You would have to spend gas to, buy the fig or pay equal money in S&H. Like it or not you can not deny the figures quality

[Grungebob]

BTW DMG has painted some very cool units for Gencon prizes!!

[InfinityMax]

So Widigo, are you proposing that the only figures we let into the Barracks are repaints? I'm not actually sure what your rant was about. Are you just bemoaning the fact that you can't get Mage Knight figures in your area?

[reapersaurus]

These guys always seemed seriously underpowered to me, no offense to Euryon/Truth/DrinkMoreGuiness.... ;)I concur.

These guys are underpowered.


Further, I cannot play them, since I cannot paint to match the custom,. Therefore they are unavailable figures as pictured on the card.
Now for me, I'd probably substitute some cheapo Mage Knight warrior figure, it's no big deal, but the fact remains that these guys cannot be easily played.... which I thought was the intention of the Barracks - "Cool customs you can play now"

[shakey_snake]

These guys always seemed seriously underpowered to me, no offense to Euryon/Truth/DrinkMoreGuiness.... ;)I concur.

These guys are underpowered.


Further, I cannot play them, since I cannot paint to match the custom,. Therefore they are unavailable figures as pictured on the card.
Now for me, I'd probably substitute some cheapo Mage Knight warrior figure, it's no big deal, but the fact remains that these guys cannot be easily played.... which I thought was the intention of the Barracks - "Cool customs you can play now"How is painting harder than buying and debasing?
If you're willing to substitute mageknight figs, why not a set of Legion with blue hats?

[skyknight]

Oh well, that is the way a open forum is going to work I guess. Anyways I do think these are a solid custom, so yes Imax if it is close remember my vote. Good lesson learned there for me, do not just throw a vote, mentally playtest that fig first. (even if it is a repaint) :P

[Rhydderch]

I like these guys but definitely feel these figures are overcosted. They are double the price of the Roman Legionnaires but with only 2 extra defense and the Einar's Ward ability which is good but not THAT good (for this squad) in my opinion.

Loyalty at a Price is a double-edged sword and I consider it weaker than regular Bonding. You are not guaranteed bonding and can harm your own Warlord. The D16 removal of a single wound is not a very big factor and might even be a waste if there are no wound markers on the Warlord. You are limited to one Warlord.

In addition the wound removal and wound placement are statistically cancelled out by each other. So what we are left with is a Warlord bonding that only works some of the time and only works for one specific Warlord.

The Romans on the other hand can bond with any Warlord and can always bond with no risk of placing a wound marker on the Warlord's card. They can bond another Warlord if their original dies.

I like Einar's Ward. It is very thematic and natural to the game. Loyalty at a Price is interesting though I'm not sure of the thematic reasoning behind what it does. I like the Guards for the most part. But I do think they need a lower cost or maybe a small power boost. Maybe if we change Loyalty to:

At the start of the game choose a Warlord you control. Before taking a turn with Praetorian Guards, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-4, place a wound marker on that Warlord's card. If you roll a 5-15, you may first take a turn with that Warlord. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may first take a turn with that Warlord and remove a wound marker from that Warlord's card.

Basically the 16 or higher roll should have a DEFINITE advantage over the 5-15 roll. Just removing a wound marker is not a clear advantage and in many cases I would definitely prefer to have the bonding. So I think it might work better if you get both.

Also maybe the 1-4 (yes I know I changed it) roll could make it so the Praetorians cannot take a turn - kind of like mercenaries refusing to fight until they are paid. That makes more sense than wounding the Warlord.

Anyway these are just some thoughts. I don't mean to intrude on your creative ideas Euryon/Truth/DrinkMoreGuiness. Just trying to give my thoughts on the custom and some ideas for you guys to think about.

[Grungebob]

You know, I almost think that Euryon meant for the warlord to be able to take a turn as well as be healed with 16+ on that ability. It is almost as if it was left off by accident. Anyway, I don't think they are as underpowered as everybody else does.

[Widigo]

I am not ranting, well maybe a little. I am just saying that they are awesome units that can be obtained just as easily, and cheaper, than a Wiz Kid Miniature. If you replaced the figure with a Wiz Kid miniature Reap, then all four of your figures would look the same and stand in the same pose, thus taking away from the realism (realistic plastic who’d a think it). You can not paint, I can not buy WK miniatures, there is always going to be something getting in the way of one of us using a Custom we did not make. Money, Talent, Patience, Supply, there is always something in the way, but for this army I say the list is very minimal. The middle two are all that could get in the way.

I have voted YES, do as you wish.

Widigo

P.S. Now that I am off of my soap box, I think he would be better costed at 80 pts. 100 pts. is a little high, but not out of the yes domain. If GB is correct and they were ment to give there WarLord a turn then they would be better costed at 110 pts. . They look awesome though.

[netherspirit]

I am just saying that they are awesome units that can be obtained just as easily.

Yeah I dunno about that, I haven't seen Wave 1 in stores in a long time, and there is no way that I am repainting the Romans that I do have.

[Doc_Savage]

I think that the arguments against cards because the figures being too difficult to get, or too hard to repaint have gotten out of hand.

Rejecting these guys because they are underpowered is one thing, but because it is too hard to paint or to get extra Romans???????

They don't need a full beautiful repaint to be played. They are not modified in any way beyond the color of the figures. The figures are available for $13 + shipping off Hasbros own site. HOW HARD IS THAT?????

If somebody likes this card, they get the figures, mark them in some simple way, and play. IF THIS IS TOO HARD THEN THERE IS NO POINT IN CONTINUING WITH THE BARRACKS.

If a different card has a figure based on a Mage Knight or D&D one, are those too hard to get? Is it a legitimate reason to reject one of these customs just because you have to locate and buy a mageknight or D&D figure? Then come the rebasing controversy. If they are not rebased then how could they be played with different bases? That would be no good. And rebasing is too hard.

If the figure on a custom is a prepainted, easily available one, then I don't see how that is an issue at all. Same for repaints of existing HS figures. Base your votes on the card, not that it is too hard to order a pack of Romans.

[Grungebob]

I want to back this up and say HEY! If you are scrolling through the Barracks there should be a wide variety of units to choose from that could potentially be easy for most people to get. If you have extra Romans like many of us do, then these guys could be an alternative for you. I agree with doc here.

I also want to admit that I don't always use the miniature pictured on the card. I will find in my collection a close proxy and use it. I don't even have the Llandadril figure, but I do have an elvin druid that is perfect.

[Widigo]

I do not even have the Legon figs. You have a bettar chance of getting this fig. than i do. Also I did not vote yes becausae the figs are awesome, i voted yes because the card has nice stats.

[toddrew]

Voted yes - maybe I'm too focused on the squad busting figures like Braxas and Nilfheim, but I think Einar's Ward justifies the cost (though, maybe 90 would be palatable - any comments on the playtesting?)

Also, when I read the card first I had assumed that on the Loyal at a Price ability for a 16 or higher, one would be able to bond AND remove a wound. Is that what was intended Euryon? After reading Rhyderrech's post I see that , as written, that's not the case.

EDIT: Not changing my vote, but thinking it over, I would like to see Loyal at a Price either more beneficial to the chosen warlord (something along the lines of Rhyderrech's suggestion) or not put the "choose one figure before the game" restriction and allow for the targeted warlord to change during the game (though that may be at odds with the flavor of the ability.)

Or change the name of the ability to Sex Panther : 75% of the time it works everytime. :lol: ooh, I love that movie.

[InfinityMax]

Haether passes the 2/3 majority vote, so she's going in the Barracks.

[Widigo]

whatever that means

[reapersaurus]

Just to clarify -
I voted no because it was clearly underpowered. Comparing to the official Romans unit makes this an easy conclusion.

Also as I mentioned, I personally have no problems substituting figures to approximate a custom's.

I thought the bonding was written quite clearly on the card - I think if anyone was surprised by it, they should read the card closer before voting. :shrug:

I'm kinda surprised anyone would consider taking the time, skill, energy and $$$ necessary to paint Romans into this squad, when the Romans are a far superior squad. :?:

Repainting Master set squads is one thing - when you make a repaint for a expansion figure, you effectively are in gameplay and $$$ competition with the official units.

Now, if I was interested playing with this custom, I would likely just take a Roman squad and mark it in some non-permanent way. OR I'd just play them with no modifications, just in a game where noone was playing the Romans.

Oh - and my take on the rebasing controversy is that there isn;t one, for ME.
I wouldn't rebase Mage Knight figures. Just get the fig (some of them are quite cheap - I tried to give some away at the recent NorCal Gameday, but noone was interested in even free ones, even Echelon!), print out the card and put it on the field and play, getting the gameplay benefit from the new abilities.
No prob.

[Widigo]

I would not use this card to its whole. I would make him 110 pts. and have them let the warlod move and attack befor them on a d20 roll of 16 or higher

[Drumline3469]

They are underpriced. Einar's Ward gives them a HUGE advantage. they could take most big guys head on. To top it all off their attack and defense are good so I think it deserves a 125 at least, but then again I dunno a whole lot about pricing.

[toddrew]

I was mostly thinking in terms of Braxas and Nilfheim, but these guys would be great against Charos (maybe not great, the 4x 3 attack against 5 defense + 9 life, but very good anyway :) ) and the Samurai. Good to send out after Sudema and Morsbane. All courtesy of 'Einar's Ward.'

[netherspirit]

I was mostly thinking in terms of Braxas and Nilfheim, but these guys would be great against Charos (maybe not great, the 4x 3 attack against 5 defense + 9 life, but very good anyway :) ) and the Samurai. Good to send out after Sudema and Morsbane. All courtesy of 'Einar's Ward.'

Not quite...they are only immune to special attacks.

[toddrew]

Not quite...they are only immune to special attacks.

DOH!!, time to break out the spectacles, I revised it to abilities in my kaleidoscope of a mind. Thanks for keeping my power bestowing in check ;)

EDIT: if it did read the way I thought, I guess they wouldn't be of much use, not being affected by their own abilities :lol:

[Karkadinn]

Uh, toddrew, with the exception of Niflheim, none of those units you mention have special attacks. ;)
There's a difference between special abilities and special attacks. A special attack replaces that unit's regular attack action, and always rolls attack dice.

[toddrew]

Uh, toddrew, with the exception of Niflheim, none of those units you mention have special attacks. ;)


I was about to amend my post to tell everyone to ignore my prior blathering about their incredible Braxas bashing ability, when the site froze up on me. They have to scurry away like all squad members in the presence of Braxas. Being immune to SA's is still good, just not as versitle as I was trying to make it :)

[reapersaurus]

I'm really beginning to wonder how hard prople read the cards before they vote.

Currently 17 yes votes for a 100 point unit that is arguably not as strong as the Romans, who are 50 points. :shock:

:shrug:

Notice these guys have to roll every turn, and therefore have a 25% chance of killing the one Warlord (if it has 1 life left) they can possibly bond with.
And that's if the guy's still alive- if he's dead, the Romans are better.

Everyone can safely ignore my comments, though, since I've always had a problem with popular votes, being cast by people who don't follow customs or read the cards closely.

[Karkadinn]

Any popular vote system will inevitably have some conclusions every indivudal will disagree with at some point or other, but I think it's better to suffer that flaw than try to make a 'Like the Halls, but for slightly worse cards' exhibit. ;) This way we have a selection of cards hand-picked by a small group of skilled members, and another selection of cards deemed worthy by popular vote... the variety keeps things fresh and wards off stagnation.

[skyknight]

I wonder if it is going to be this much fun to vote each new card in :lol:

[reapersaurus]

Any popular vote system will inevitably have some conclusions every indivudal will disagree with at some point or other, but I think it's better to suffer that flaw than try to make a 'Like the Halls, but for slightly worse cards' exhibit. ;) This way we have a selection of cards hand-picked by a small group of skilled members, and another selection of cards deemed worthy by popular vote... the variety keeps things fresh and wards off stagnation.that's a good point, KArk.

I'll try to view this as a "Customs that many people think would be good in game" thread instead of a community-determined "Best of the Rest" customs.

It may help me accept incorrectly costed units in the Barracks better.
Hey, at least the Aliens and the Praetorians are both very overcosted, instead of being undercosted. :thumbsup:
We gotta admit, being overcosted isn't as damaging...

[Karkadinn]

Even Hasbro overcosts, after all. ;D

[reapersaurus]

BLASPHEMY!

STONE HIM!

:lol:

[Grungebob]

You guys are overreacting a tad here. These praetorians are a decent unit that even got nominated for the Halls at one time. Perhaps they fit in somebody's play-style, or perhaps they fit a theme that appeals. You can argue that you know best about what is right and wrong but you can't argue against what people like and find of value.. :) <-- nice guy smiley

[InfinityMax]

Grungebob brings us Agent Bale, a repaint of the female Krav Maga agent.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10002/aabbccc.jpg

[InfinityMax]

I voted yes, because I have used her, and she's fun.

[netherspirit]

I voted yes, because I have used her, and she's fun.

Ditto, one of the few "not mine" customs that I have actually played in more than one game :)

[toddrew]

IM, nether, (GB for that matter ;) ): care to share any battle experiences using Telekinetic Transposition? I would think it may come in handy by switching a besieged figure out with a samurai, just wondering how others had taken advantage of the ability (or is there a thread you could point me to, I did a quick search but didn't find anything.)

Telepathic Link gives her some versatility (depending on the rest of the army's composition.)

Seems fragile at 4 life and 3 defense for 90 points.

Reserving my vote for some more commentary, but for now I would say yes - interesting and thematic figure, leans toward overcosted IMHO, but maybe situations that arise where she's more than worth her points.

[justjohn]

I think this is a solid custom. Super easy fig to get, and, on top of that, it is a very good project for a someone who is just getting started out painting miniatures. Only a few different colors, and very open areas to paint.

A yes from me.

[InfinityMax]

So much fun! Swap a disposable unit for a bad-ass enemy unit - right after you surround that disposable unit with six of his closest friends. Now your opponent's figure is surrounded (and your grut is dead meat)!

Especially fun in conjunction with the Obsidians - trade an Obsidian for, well, anyone! For maximum effect, make sure your Obsidian was standing in lava. You can achieve similar effects (though not as deadly) with vipers and a large body of water.

And here's a fun combo army - Kelda, Alistair, Agent Bale and Drake. Send Drake in, keep Alistair back. When Drake takes a beating, swap him for the crazy scotsman and heal his ass back up! Repeat as needed.

Such a cool unit, possibly my favorite custom (of the ones I didn't make myself). Too damned much fun. This awesome power is nicely tempered by the need to beat a 13. You may want to take the lucky Kyrie, too (one of Truth's, needs to be nominated soon).

[Widigo]

I just don't like this one sorry, I know that is a petty way to voet, but feel free to give me a no if you don't like the way my customs look if i ever finish any.

[InfinityMax]

Widigo, that's why it's a public opinion poll. Your feedback is not just allowed, it's welcome. You don't have to like 'em all.

Except this one. You have to like this one.

Just kidding.

[reapersaurus]

By decreasing the range of the Transposition to 4, this greatly reduced the potential power of this unit and made it much more in line with a <=100 point unit.

She reads pretty good now.

Of course, she still has the just-too-good Bonding with Agent Carr (who shoots from the back), whom she can repeatedly try to swap places with a fragile opponent (like Sudema) and really change the course of the game. Even better, Carr can always Ghostwalk and Disengage away if he doesn't like where he's sent to, but the other guys are stuck near him, likely.

Oh - and it's GREAT that she is an easily-obtainable figure, likely not doing anything as a duplicate unique figure. :thumbsup:

GB - I'm curious - have you found any figure that screams to be Agent Bale if NOT this female Krav Maga? Maybe some Reaper mini that made you "feel" that might capture her spirit, or some other fig?

[skyknight]

I voted no, I don't care for repaints really.....



HAh just jokin she was a yes all the way :lol:

[Rhydderch]

I voted yes. Ditto what the other people who voted yes said. Sorry for the short commentary: back from classes and tired.

[Widigo]

I just realized, is this a custom or a rebase, i just played and killed a couple Krav Maga. (I need to play more for that slap in the face to not hurt)

I guess that she is ok. Better range though and I would like her. Good paint job, but she is staying as a nofor now. You have done better.

[Grungebob]

By decreasing the range of the Transposition to 4, this greatly reduced the potential power of this unit and made it much more in line with a <=100 point unit.

She reads pretty good now.

Of course, she still has the just-too-good Bonding with Agent Carr (who shoots from the back), whom she can repeatedly try to swap places with a fragile opponent (like Sudema) and really change the course of the game. Even better, Carr can always Ghostwalk and Disengage away if he doesn't like where he's sent to, but the other guys are stuck near him, likely.

Oh - and it's GREAT that she is an easily-obtainable figure, likely not doing anything as a duplicate unique figure. :thumbsup:

GB - I'm curious - have you found any figure that screams to be Agent Bale if NOT this female Krav Maga? Maybe some Reaper mini that made you "feel" that might capture her spirit, or some other fig?There is a good Horroclix dominamatrix looking gal that would work.

http://www.wizkidsgames.com/horrorclix/images/figs/hc_02.jpg

[DoesntCompute]

Before I vote, can I get some clarification?

The card states "before taking a turn... you may first make a normal attack with..."

So the second agent may not move? It is an attack only and cannot be a special attack?

Also, you may only bond with a single figure not a squad correct?

Lastly, if more than one unique is allowed on the board (different players) can Bale teleport her opponent's Bale?

[spiderM9]

I vote yes. This is the figure that has convinced me to start making repaints. (ok, I'm about to *start* making repaints, gotta get some paint).

[Grungebob]

Before I vote, can I get some clarification?

The card states "before taking a turn... you may first make a normal attack with..."

So the second agent may not move? It is an attack only and cannot be a special attack?

Also, you may only bond with a single figure not a squad correct?

Lastly, if more than one unique is allowed on the board (different players) can Bale teleport her opponent's Bale?You are correct.

[skyknight]

This is the part where gb takes off his shirt.... what do you mean no.....I saw Billy Madison.

[InfinityMax]

This is another of Grungebob's customs, which uses a Mage Knight figure. As seems to be the case more and more often these days, I don't know which one, so anyone who does know, pipe up.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10002/Llenadilcopy.jpg

[InfinityMax]

The Praetorians are in the Barracks with a very healthy margin.

[netherspirit]

This one seems like a no brainer. Cool abilities with a seemingly balanced cost and its oozing with flavor.

[yagyuninja]

Um, ditto. 4 defense with 4 life seems ok to keep her/him/it alive long enough to have fun. And I think I would have a lot of fun shuffling trees around! I'm laughing now just thinking about it.

Nice job Grungebob.

[jdtenor]

great specials & it's a elf

[netherspirit]

The figure is: #094 Wylden Host-Leader UNIQUE its from the Dark Riders set.

http://gamingetc.safeshopper.com/1321/12387.htm?333

[reapersaurus]

I voted yes, though I'm worried she may be too effective, with built-in move-able cover, and very likely a Range 5, 5-attack-die special attack that would rip up a lot of units. For 70 points.

But I love the flavor and theme of the unit, and the gameplay difference she brings to the table. I'd love to see those trees moving around.

Question - what happens when a tree is on a lava field space? If it takes damage, what's the tree's stats? Does it die in lava? Does it get extra movement on bridges?

[truth]

I voted yes, though I'm worried she may be too effective, with built-in move-able cover, and very likely a Range 5, 5-attack-die special attack that would rip up a lot of units. For 70 points.

But I love the flavor and theme of the unit, and the gameplay difference she brings to the table. I'd love to see those trees moving around.

Question - what happens when a tree is on a lava field space? If it takes damage, what's the tree's stats? Does it die in lava? Does it get extra movement on bridges?

They can only move through grass rock and sand, it says that in the ability.

[reapersaurus]

that would cover it then. :)
Although lava rock (fields) is rock, by definition, it makes the rules simpler, which is very important.

Teach me to post a rules question off the top of my head without re-reading the card. :lol: As I remembered, most stuff had been already brought up..... :thumbsup:

[InfinityMax]

This thread is intended to keep a record of the comments and voting numbers of Barracks voting threads. I'll be recording the customs with vote histories here, and the comments will, unfortunately, be kind of scattered throughout the thread.

Veridian Dusk Devil: Voted into the Barracks
Voting History: 17 Votes. 13 Yes, 2 Overpowered, 2 Underpowered.
(Voting thread deleted)

Reflective Monks: Voted in
Voting history: 13 votes. 13 Yes

Colossor: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 14. No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 2

Selene: Voted out
23 votes, 15 yes, 1 overpowered, 7 other reason

Treant Woodlord: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 15, No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 1

Woodwoad Warriors: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 16, No - Underpowered: 1

Agnar the Black Knight: Voted out
Voting History: 19 votes, 5 yes, 2 underpowered, 4 overpowered, 8 other reason

Bearers of the Way: voted out
18 votes, 8 yes, 7 underpowered, 3 other reason

Alien Queen and Alien: voted in
Voting History: 16 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Underpowered: 1, No - Other Reason - 2

Haether: Voted in
Voting history: 18 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Overpowered - 1, No - Underpowered - 1, No - Other Reason - 3

Praetorian Guard: Voted in
Voting History - 24 total votes; Yes: 19; No - Overpowered: 1; No - Underpowered - 3; No - Other Reason: 1

[ChaosChild]

The Tree Bonding ability might be a little too powerful with an unlimited range. It allows Llenadil to change the battlefield (which is quite powerful) without risking herself. Yes, I understand that her SA requires her to get into the combat but, being able to move trees to cover friendlies, uncover hostiles, and create choke points is worth not destroying a fig that turn. IMO. Especially for only 70 points. So, my suggetion is limit the range of the ability (10 spaces, maybe).

Most of the time this won't be a problem because of lack of trees and intervening terrain (water, road, etc.) but, the potential is there for creating a major advantage for the player controlling Llenadil.

As a whole, this is a great, inventive, and fun custom.

[reapersaurus]

She has Tree Bonding - she actually doesn;t give up anything to move them.

And I knew there was something in the back of my mind about this ability I couldn;t pin down. The RANGE of the tree movement.
Basically, any scenario that has trees across a battlefield even, the enemies trees can be used to choke down movement and quite possibly block the most obvious travel point on the map.

Has anyone looked at a sub-set of maps that people play with trees on them and see if the movement strategy would be unduly affected if Llenadil moved the trees to block the opposing armies advancement?

[Karkadinn]

I hate to say it, but IMHO anything that actually monkeys with the map format like that could easily break any scenario that happens to have a semi-limited path or chokepoint between the armies and the goal. Like the Putrid Carcasses ability, I can just think of too many ways for it to screw things up because people who make maps expect their maps (not unreasonably, I think) to not be changed from their provided rules while in play.

[reapersaurus]

Putrid Carcass goes away in a round or 2, which minimizes that possibility.

[Widigo]

I gave this one a yes cause i owe you one Grunge, but this custom also kicks ass.

[Rhydderch]

Teach me to post a rules question off the top of my head without re-reading the card. :lol: As I remembered, most stuff had been already brought up..... :thumbsup:

LOL! Weren't you the one who complained about people who did not carefully read custom cards? Time to take some of your own medicine :wink:

Anyway I voted yes. I think she has the potential to break a map especially if anyone decides to make a proper forest. I believe most groups decide beforehand whether they want to use customs and which customs to use, so it should not be a real problem.

Plus every cloud has a silver lining. It would be great to see Llenadil in a pitched battle in the middle of a large forest where she can use her Tree Bonding to maximum potential. Something like a 200-300 point Orc army against Llenadil and a single squad of Aubrien Archers.

[reapersaurus]

Teach me to post a rules question off the top of my head without re-reading the card. :lol: As I remembered, most stuff had been already brought up..... :thumbsup:

LOL! Weren't you the one who complained about people who did not carefully read custom cards? Time to take some of your own medicine :wink: Please. It may be fun to tease, but let's make no mistake - I didn;t screw up and vote no because of not reading the card. I voted Yes.
I know this custom is quality enough to be played on a customs-accepting table - me just throwing an idle question off the top of my head in no way changed my decision to vote Yes.

[Rhydderch]

Please. It may be fun to tease, but let's make no mistake - I didn;t screw up and vote no because of not reading the card. I voted Yes.

No worries Reaper. It was just a tease :P I knew you voted yes and that you are usually very careful when you judge a card. Hence the wink at the end of my comment. Maybe I should have put two?

:wink: :wink:

And two smiles too!

:D :D

Ok I'll stop with the tangential smilies. Everyone can now return to the Llenadil discussion =P

[Grungebob]

BTW almost all of my units are collaborations with Truth, who does absolutely all of the visual stuff and most of the stats. Truth named this one after a friend of ours ;)

[truth]

I hate to say it, but IMHO anything that actually monkeys with the map format like that could easily break any scenario that happens to have a semi-limited path or chokepoint between the armies and the goal. Like the Putrid Carcasses ability, I can just think of too many ways for it to screw things up because people who make maps expect their maps (not unreasonably, I think) to not be changed from their provided rules while in play.

I'm going to have to fall back on my common retort for the customs that break current scenarios problem... It is my feelings that if a custom (or a standard) unit breaks a scenario you can simply make a house rule that disallows that unit for that scenario. I wouldn't mind seeing range in the tree bonding though... That is if GB thinks its a good idea. 10 sounded good to me.

[Karkadinn]

If it was just one or two specific scenario condition things, I could see it, but this girl could easily mess up any map with trees and reasonably limited paths. And if she messes up most of the maps with trees on them it kinda limits her draftability. So I'm the lonely 'no' vote. ;) Oh well, can't win 'em all....

[Grungebob]

This thread is intended to keep a record of the comments and voting numbers of Barracks voting threads. I'll be recording the customs with vote histories here, and the comments will, unfortunately, be kind of scattered throughout the thread.

Veridian Dusk Devil: Voted into the Barracks
Voting History: 17 Votes. 13 Yes, 2 Overpowered, 2 Underpowered.
(Voting thread deleted)

Reflective Monks: Voted in
Voting history: 13 votes. 13 Yes

Colossor: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 14. No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 2

Selene: Voted out
23 votes, 15 yes, 1 overpowered, 7 other reason

Treant Woodlord: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 15, No - Overpowered: 1, No - Other Reason: 1

Woodwoad Warriors: Voted in
Voting History: 17 total votes; Yes: 16, No - Underpowered: 1

Agnar the Black Knight: Voted out
Voting History: 19 votes, 5 yes, 2 underpowered, 4 overpowered, 8 other reason

Bearers of the Way: voted out
18 votes, 8 yes, 7 underpowered, 3 other reason

Alien Queen and Alien: voted in
Voting History: 16 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Underpowered: 1, No - Other Reason - 2

Haether: Voted in
Voting history: 18 total votes; Yes: 13, No - Overpowered - 1, No - Underpowered - 1, No - Other Reason - 3

Praetorian Guard: Voted in
Voting History - 24 total votes; Yes: 19; No - Overpowered: 1; No - Underpowered - 3; No - Other Reason: 1Whatever happened with my agent bale custom? I came home from work and her voting thread is gone and I don't know what the result was. She's not in the display thread and nowhere do I see any mention of her not making the cut.

[InfinityMax]

Ah, I knew I forgot something. Sorry - I've been pretty busy, and that one just got past me. I'll remedy the issue directly.

[justjohn]

Doc_Savage's Arctic Migoi:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Doc_Savage/Heroscape%20Cards/ArcticMigoiv2.jpg

These figures are uncommons from a D&D mini's expansion, Fiendish Girallon (sp) and are on the cheap side.

[Marsman]

Nice custom! The Siman Grip is very original! My only concernes are that stealth leap should be move 3 like the Monks, and move should be decreased to 5 like the Dxu-Teh.

[Karkadinn]

Hmm... Dzu-Teh with a couple different official abilities, and a Gladiatron/forced mount knockoff ability. Doesn't really give us much of anything that the game doesn't have except for the forced 'riding' bit, which could easily be stuck onto a different kind of figure not already in the game. Overall, just seems like too much text for too little payoff, and (shockingly, considering its creator) not all that creative or original....

[1moreheroscaper]

I like the Grip Special, it reminds me of the hug or hold ability that the Yetis had in the HeroQuest: Barbarian expansion.

[Widigo]

I do not feel that it is that innovative, of a card, the minis are ok, but the card is not bringing anything that new to HS. I would play with this unit, but it is not Barracks material quite yet. A simple move like simian grip is not enough. I look for uniqueness in a custom of Barracks level. I would also say he could be about 10 pts cheaper, but that’s just splitting hairs.

Good Luck in the future Doc Savage!

:emptystar: :emptystar: :emptystar: :emptystar: :emptystar:

5/10

No, Other Reason = Nothing New.

Think outside of the box, I have seen your work Doc, you can do better.

Widigo

[ChaosChild]

A couple of things missing from Simian Grip.

Can the Migoi attack a large or huge fig with Simian Grip?

How many figs can one Migoi grip?

[InfinityMax]

Widigo, it doesn't have to be something new to fit into the Barracks. These aren't cutting edge customs, they're customs you can use. It may not be revolutionary (though I disagree about not being anything new), but it is certainly playable. If you would allow a player to use the custom, then it's a 'yes.' This ain't the Halls. These figures never went to knife and fork school.

Oh, and I vote Hell Yes.

[Widigo]

I am not going to change my vote. These are GOOD customs you can use now. Doing something new is not a ticket into the halls, nor is it into the barracks. If the card is not a seven or higher it will not get my yes. That is not hard, if you actually tried (no offence Doc I can tell that you did) to make a seven you could, I just feel that Doc can do better.

To each according to his need.
From each according to his ability.

If he can do better he needs to. This card is not innovative enough to make it into the barracks on my vote, and that is what the barracks is all about the vote.

Widigo

I will let anything balanced and taken seriously play my games. I look for originality.

[Rhydderch]

Widigo:

Could you tell us what criteria you use when you judge a custom and how you scale it to a single number?

In your first post you mentioned it is not innovative and when Imax wrote that the Simian Grip was new you said it was not enough. What would be the criteria for a GOOD custom for you? How innovative does a custom have to be?

Also when you say "From Each According to his Ability" do you mean you judge each custom based on who the creator is and what he has done before?

I don't mean to put you on the spot but I was hoping you could give us some more specific examples of how you evaluate and judge a custom. Thanks!

[Doc_Savage]

Thanks for the nomination...

For the record..

The Simian Grip is a variation on my own Aliens Powerloader card, first created Aug 16, 2005. I had a power called pneumatic grab and carry. That in turn was based on (I think) HeH's King Kong that I helped write the grab power for.

Regarding Stealth Leap - I thought since these guys were Large that they could jump farther but not as high.

I don't remember if I had seen the Dzu-teh when I made these back in March, but I wanted them to be quick. I'm pretty sure that I hadn't, or I would have referenced the Snow and Ice Enhanced Movement power.

The Simian Grip, per the card, only works on small or medium figures. The power says, "...may attack normally and move with the attacked figure..." which I meant to be that the Migoi could not use Simian Grip, a Special Attack. I suppose this could be a bit clearer.


I have played these and they are fun. The figures are an Uncommon D&D called Fiendish Girallon from the War Drums set. I have 6 of them.

[bunjee]

I would allow it as is, may find that with play there would be minor changes, such as a need for disengagement clarification for the grabbed figure, ie: are they subject to breaking engagement rolls when the Migoi take them away from another enemy fig.

[Widigo]

If I am judging a card, I look for things that I can see actually turning a battle; I look for things that are deeply strategic. I do not feel that this qualifies, it is simple, and will have little effect on battle. I would never draft them unless the goal was to capture an opponents figure, that is about all I can see them being good for. They have done nothing that Hasbro couldn’t.

This is a poll as to what I feel the unit is worth, I give it 5 out of 10. I give barracks to 7s and think that halls should be 10, but I don't vote for those. You asked me my opinion I gave it to you.

If I you would like me more for it.
Good Things about Arctic Migoi:

They look nice.
They are very playable.
They are well balanced.
They are a neat card.

Bad Things about Artic Migoi:

There is nothing new.
They are common (easily made, lacking deep though, not a reference to how many you can have in battle)
They are not 7 material.

Also I may be nitpicking, but are they sincerely disciplined they look pretty chaotic, but that did not effect my vote.

I feel that they are nothing special. A nice army, but Hasbro has a lot of nice armies. If we are going to re event the wheel, then why bother.

Now that I dedicate more time, I guess I could give them a 6/10.

Yes, I take what the creator is capable of into consideration. I would not expect, a pile of **** from grungebob, nor would I expect an army that (until we started arguing about it) would not have made a bleep on the radar from as great a creator as Doc.

My opinion may not be fair.

If my vote was the only one against them you would have 13 votes, so it is not just me.

Widigo

[justjohn]

Doc_Savage's Krijgsheer Kjeld:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Doc_Savage/Heroscape%20Cards/PeteDragon1post.jpg

The figure is an uncommon Mage Knight figure that runs around .50-1.50 on ebay.

[netherspirit]

I think he may be overpowered. The Warlord power seems REALLY powerful. With some strategic placement you could really do some damage with your ranged units, giving the ability to attack and then move away out of range.

I haven't played him but would be interested in comments or thoughts about his Warlord power from someone that has.

[justjohn]

I have to agree, Warlord is powerful on its. But then you take into account the frame that it's mounted to, which is a better than average frame, with flying he is getting pretty tough.

Blade of Pterrar kind of pushes it over the edge for me. That is super powerful, and potentially an army eliminator, in a single turn none the less, against a swarm army.

I just think this guy needs either to A) drop one of the abilities and either be a support figure or an offensive figure, he's far too powerful at the current cost to do both. B) Raise his points signifigantly.

This is all being said with never playing with the guy, it just seems like he could have an overwhelming effect on a game.

[Rhydderch]

Thanks for the response Widigo. I asked because the Barracks was meant to showcase customs which worked well within the framework of the game and could be played next to other official figures. They do not necessarily need to re-invent the wheel - only to be fun and well-made within the framework of that wheel.

Also I think your evaluation of the Migoi IS fair. My only concern was how high you set your expectations for the Barracks.

Anyway I voted yes on the Migoi. I have a few small quibbles but otherwise they are a nice squad. The capture ability is versatile: you can drop an enemy figure in lava or use leap to transport your own figure to higher ground or over water. It could also be used on a figure such as Raelin or Taelord in order to get a nifty mobile aura! The chance to temporarily take a figure out of the game is quite nice as well especially since turn markers must be spent in order to get the figure free.

The quibbles I mentioned earlier were the number of figures that can be grabbed at a time and whether grabbed figures take leaving engagement attacks. I would also standardize the text on the other Migoi abilities.

[reapersaurus]

Well, I haven't stated my opinion yet. :twisted:
I'm the one who nominated the Arctic Migoi.

I believe they are one of the strongest instantly-connected to official terrain in my mind customs I've ever seen on this site.

The choice of figure is fantastic - one of the best ever, and I don't say that lightly. It is a GREAT figure, it is cheaper than most customs, currently easy to acquire, and fits the card powers and Tundra atmosphere perfectly.

Widigo - you have an opinion. Great.
Unfortunately, what you say is simply incorrect, in my opinion : and I'll state exactly why.

You say it isn;t anything new and isn't adding strategy to the game - well, that is false.
The Simian Grip is not the same as cyberclaw.
It adds the ability to MOVE the grabbed figure. Cyberclaw does not. You missed the idea that the Simians can drop grabbed figures in terrain they want. :shock: While this may have been done very rarely (grab-and-move) in customs before, (and I should know, since I'm the customs historian/archivist), unless you can point to better implementations of this grab-and-carry ability, I'd have to conclude that you take my word for it that the Arctic Migoi have the best implementation of it in the entire game. I've been here since early on in the HS customs, and frankly it seems a bit strange for someone who is brand new and has very little exposure with HS customs to be declaring the things that you are saying.

(On a side note - you really should read your posts closely, because you word things confusingly that hampers your points - for example, "If we are going to re event the wheel, then why bother" doesn't help us know what you are meaning. I THINK you meant the opposite.)

You say they will have little effect on battle.
Well, that also brings into question your gameplay understanding.
A common squad that is good at movement in their native terrain (Snow Acclimation combined with Leap and the free Disengage) will likely be in very good position on any map that has Tundra. This tends to suggest they likely could have height advantage. This would give them 5 attack, in a 3-figure squad. They are Range 1, so can benefit from many enhancements.
Their grab-and-move could put the opponent in lava, which kinda would have an effect on battle.

Now, there ARE some niggling things, but nothing that stops me from voting Yes -
Widigo is right, that the Disciplined doesn't make much thematic sense (to me) and I don't get the idea of a squad being a Champion. :shrug:
They may be overcosted by 10 or so, but it's close enough to accurate - as close as official units are anyway.

But as I remember asking in the original thread, "Why can't the Migoi choose to release their grabbed opponent?"
It says place them adjacent - what happens when they are placed in open-air (big drop) at the edge of a cliff?

Anyway - hope this analysis clears up some things, and helps Widigo to understand customs reviews better.

I'm gonna be picking up 6 of these figures from a guy for $.50 a piece. :thumbsup:

Rhydderech - they can't be used with Raelin to get a mobile aura, since the grab shuts off special powers. :( Finn woulda been nice to have 1 of them carry around... :D

[Grungebob]

I'd have to conclude that you take my word for it that the Arctic Migoi have the best implementation of it in the entire game. I've been here since early on in the HS customs, and frankly it seems a bit strange for someone who is brand new and has very little exposure with HS customs to be declaring the things that you are saying.

Not refuting anything here but since we are taking a stroll down memory lane.... I have played this guy and he is very cool. Very good implimentation of grab and drop. It has been a while though (a year?)

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=7

[reapersaurus]

The Warlord power seems REALLY powerful. With some strategic placement you could really do some damage with your ranged units, giving the ability to attack and then move away out of range.No - I don't see that - what you describe would be a one-trick pony. Any opponent that sees you moving up Kjeld and then moving up a ranged squad should go afterthe ranged squad, since they are able to attack and then move back next turn, but they are just as attackable before then.

What you suggest (repeated abusiveness of this) would only be for when the ranged attackers happened to be within 4 spaces, AND on some restricted-access cliff or something. That's more situational than when lava is on the board.

As for the Blade of Pterrar (great play-on-words BTW, since it IS a terror for people who rely on common squad armies), I see it as a necessary equalizer to a problem with HS : that it is actually squad-scape.

Common squads dominate competetive play.
It is high time a custom came around that actually penalized the opponent for using common squads.

As for whether he is costed right - that's impossible to say without playtesting new & powerful abilities like these. I'd love to hear any qualified results with him.

He may have too much defense, though - comparing him to other powerful figures, (like Sudema) he maybe should have 2 defense - that would make it an easier strategy for even common squad opponents to swarm him and take him out before he did too much damage to their armies, and would buffer his game impact.

[reapersaurus]

No, thanks for the reference, GB!
I know there have been some other similar abilities before - I still believe this one to be the best implementation of a Grab-and-carry. (Elentar's doesn't require a roll to be successful) :(

In fact, I'm surprised I can't find the earliest version of this fantastic Cloud Champion unit of truth's - I always loved it, so much I thought I had the early version that IIRC didn;t have the drop ability. I'm WAY going on vague memories, but I thought I may have suggested that it be able to drop the carried figure, or at least commented how I loved it.
The funny thing is - I just this week won this huge bird-and-rider fig on EBay for $2.75. I've been wanting to play him for a LONG time - I rmember it as one of the first big figs that had very inspirational presence - I think it (and the great support squad for him which is a rarity) are fantastic units, ahead of their time actually.

GB - you can bring up previous customs implementations ANY day - :thumbsup:

(I would have liked a longer, less-cherry-picking reply to my post, though.....
whenever things are taken out of context from a long post, it tends to make that longer, large-effort post be dismissed.)

[Grungebob]

I'm never as long winded as you are Reaper. You'd just be disappointed. I was trying to intrude upon the discussion in a very small way so as to provide some history about our awesome customs we love so much and how we as a group build upon each others work in a way that improves quality yet does nothing to deter from the previous efforts.

[Widigo]

Ok, how does this sound. I will say I do not like him, you will say you do. This is not a how well do you understand game play discussion. Nor is this a contest to see how many customs a person has seen, or how long they have played Heroscape.

My opinion stands. I do not feel this is barracks material. If I produce something of inadequate quality I expect to be told straight up. I will do the same in return. If you do not like my custom I expect you to say the same. I never said I did not understand the strategy of throwing someone in lava, or off of a cliff, but that does not mean that they are getting a yes out of me. Now pleases can we respect the fact that we disagree. No need for insults, no need for comparison. We are all adults here.

I never said I did not like them, I would allow them in my games, sooner than I would allow some official units. He is just not worth second best.

I mean what I say, if we are going to make more of what Hasbro did then we need not even buy figures. We could just go out and buy there stuff.

Widigo

[reapersaurus]

Ok, how does this sound. I will say I do not like him, you will say you do. This is not a how well do you understand game play discussion. Nor is this a contest to see how many customs a person has seen, or how long they have played Heroscape.

My opinion stands. I do not feel this is barracks material. If I produce something of inadequate quality I expect to be told straight up.

<snip to below> Now pleases can we respect the fact that we disagree. No need for insults, no need for comparison. We are all adults here. I know this is dangerous ground, but I am trying to discuss this impersonally, and staying completely objective here. Please try to do the same, Widigo - I know that must be hard, when some of these important points are bringing up the fact that you haven't got much experience with HS customs, and you don't have a good comparison context by which to judge them. I'm not stating this maliciously - it is essential that you and other realize this if you are going to be rendering your reasoned judgments about custom units.

If you simply stated you didn;t like them, that would be one thing - that's not discussable, since everyone has opinions.
I am not talking about that.
You stated objective critiques of the Arctic Migoi which are patently untrue. Yet you don't realize this.
HS csutoms are not all subjective. There are some sound objective design factors to this endeavor, which it seems you have some understanding of I think you'd agree with that statement.

But the reasons you cited were not true, and I stated exactly why they weren't.
I stayed impersonal, replying only to the points and your background with customs, and my background in customs (which are admissable - think of it as I would be the Expert Witness in court, due to my extensive background in the field - so I have to state my qualifications, in contrast to yours).

I agree, this isn't a contest of how many customs a person has seen - why would it be a contest, since I have seen many hundreds more than you - there is no contest there. In fact, most of us in these customs threads have seen hundreds more than you.

Which makes it all the more strange when you bring up reasons like "I look for uniqueness in a custom of Barracks level" to vote against a custom. :confused:
Seriously - how do you KNOW what is unique, if you have only been looking at customs for like 2 weeks at most? :shrug:
I never said I did not understand the strategy of throwing someone in lava, or off of a cliff, but that does not mean that they are getting a yes out of me. Actually, you did say that: I would never draft them unless the goal was to capture an opponents figure, that is about all I can see them being good for. They have done nothing that Hasbro couldn’t.You never brought up the fact that they can carry their opponent.
You also said that Hasbro has done this.
No, they haven't. Yours was a false statement.

If you simply say "I don't like them" than I'm cool with that - I am not begging or forcing you to vote any way on them, and you're right - your vote won't stop them from getting in the Barracks.
But when you make incorrect statements about their objective design points, than I consider it my obligation to point out where you are wrong.
Nothing personal, Widigo. Heck, I applaud anyone attempting to bring an objective criteria approach to HS customs. :thumbsup:
Keep looking at customs, and learn what is new and what isn't.

BTW - I'd expect you'd love Doc's other, more unique customs (like Kjeld on vote now) and my customs, which are usually considered too-new and strecth the game too much for comfort. :lol:

[Doc_Savage]

Now that the Champion and Disciplined have been mentioned, I see that those are a mistake that I will correct tonight.

FIXED Beasts / Ferocious

[justjohn]

Common squads may be the keystone in a lot of competitive play, but having the opportunity to knock out an entire army, in a single turn/single attack? I hate to draw at straws, it's a slim chance that a single attack would actually do that, I know, but the threat of it just doesn't bode well. It just seems borderline extreme.

You're right, I don't think we could really even begin to price this guy accurately without playtesting. Maybe scaled pricing? He has the chance to shine a lot brighter in a 1000 point game full of common squads, than he does in a 400 point game.

I think it is a very neat idea, I just wish there was some sort of cap on it, but I really can't think around the corners to come up with a decent one.
Maybe drop his defense, as you suggested, maybe even his life. I really don't know.

The more I look at it, Warlord is very neat, and bends the current norm just enough to add a new twist on strategy, but not enough to break the game.

[reapersaurus]

Good tweak. :thumbsup:

Just refresh the page if anyone wants to see the new version.

[netherspirit]

Now they bond with Arrow Gruts?

[Rhydderch]

Cool Doc! I'm glad you made those updates to the Migoi. Better for theme =) I would consider changing the Migoi to Hunters though to match their Dzu-Teh counterparts and avoid any Arrow Grut bonding.

Rhydderech - they can't be used with Raelin to get a mobile aura, since the grab shuts off special powers. :( Finn woulda been nice to have 1 of them carry around... :D

Actually Simian Grip says the figure cannot USE any special powers so I'm not sure it will shut down any auras since they are natural bonuses that do not require any active component from the hero figure.

This is the way I interpreted the ability and I think it is more versatile and fun but maybe Doc can give us his take on it. If Simian Grip does shut down all special powers I would also suggest a re-write of the ability to match the text on Morsbane's card:

If this attack is successful against a small or medium figure, instead of taking wounds, the target figure is grabbed. A grabbed figure may not move and all of its special powers are negated until the grab is broken.

[reapersaurus]

Hmmm.... well, if that was an issue (and it is a remote possibility, especially with huge armies) than it could be fixed one of two ways:

1) Artificially add a limit to the number of figures that can be eliminated each turn.

2) Simply tweak the wording to say "If Kjeld causes a wound with this attack, then Kjeld also rolls on attack die against up to 3 figures that share an Army Card with the wounded figure."

#2 would eliminate the clarification needed for Common cards, also.
But it would reduce significantly the extra benefit he gets against common units. At least Kjeld would be able to target ANY common figure that shares that card. Ironic, since that's the advantage that players of common units take advantage of, and he gets to use that advantage, too. :D

[Widigo]

I did not say that Hasbro had,( in one card all in one bound up and stamped with the "Made With Love and Care" sticker), used the Simian Grip special, anyone with access to the Heroscape website can figure out that much. I said it had been done before, even if in more than one custom.

I have been at this custom ting for a few months, but that is till a small time I understand this. On the same point I understand that (no offence) making customs, card, figure, or otherwise, may be hard, but does not come with an experience level requirement, nor does it check your SAT scores. I do not need to see every custom under the sun to know how a mechanic will work when you pretend it is the only custom in the world. That is to say, look at it in comparison to HS officials. You do not need experience to think territory has been explored well enough.

If you are saying my opinion is not valid based on experience, then say that verbatim, I am not here to act better than any of you. Nor am I here to nitpick. If I say I feel something is not “yes” material then it is not “yes” material, in my opinion. I love a healthy debate, but you have your 13 votes so let us move on.

I have given a few “yes”s before, none of you argued with those, but I have an opinion that draws on my experience, intelligence, and common sense, and you clamed that I lack two out of three.

Widigo

:deadhorse:

[Rhydderch]

I like Kjeld but feel he is too powerful for his cost. His stats definitely need to be tweaked in order to balance his VERY deadly abilities.

Warlord is powerful but the 4 range provides some good limitations to what it can be used for. Legionnaires would be able to bond with Kjeld but since they are melee attackers it is not much of a threat.

The Blade of Pterrar is more problematic since it can potentially destroy a swarm army and I agree that it needs to be limited somehow.

"If Kjeld causes a wound with this attack, then Kjeld also rolls on attack die against up to 3 figures that share an Army Card with the wounded figure."

I do not like this version because it almost limits the ability too much. Kjeld was originally nominated for his potential to devastate a whole army and I think that possibility should still be there. So I would propose:

Choose a figure to attack. If Krijgsheer Kjeld inflicts a wound on the chosen figure, roll 1 attack die against every figure within 10 clear sight spaces that shares an Army Card (or cards if the figure is a common squad) with the chosen figure. All figures roll defense dice separately.

It does not affect every figure on the board but it has the potential to do so with no upper limit to how many figures it can affect. However it is not as broken as the original ability because it puts some of the eggs in the enemy player's pocket since he decides where to move his own figures.

[InfinityMax]

I gotta go with a no. I don't want to. I like this dude. But 140 points for a 4/4 flyer with the ability to destroy half of a swarm army with a single attack, plus letting your own guys hit and then run away, is too cheap. If he was closer to 200, maybe even over, I would probably allow him. Hell, I have the figure, I would probably field him. He's a bad-ass.

[Grungebob]

He bonds with some guys too. It is not that one punch from him could destroy an entire army, but that 2-3 punches might in addition to his being a warlord(bondable) and then flying and allowing the hit and run. His points should go up rather than change him just make him cost a bunch. I do like him.

[InfinityMax]

I never said I did not like them, I would allow them in my games, sooner than I would allow some official units.

Then the answer to this question:

'Would you allow this custom?'

is 'yes.'

[Doc_Savage]

Since the Hounds and Dund are Hunters, I could go with Hunters.

I have updated the image. Hit Refesh to see it.

[Doc_Savage]

If he were to stay as is, what would you cost him at?