counterstrike on a blank attack?

[Ch1can0]

Hi,

if i´m attacked only by blanks&shields, i don´t need to roll for defence, can i counterstrike such an attack? thx for info.

Chicano.

[netherspirit]

Hi,

if i´m attacked only by blanks&shields, i don´t need to roll for defence, can i counterstrike such an attack? thx for info.

Chicano.

Correct, you don't need to roll for the defense, but in the case of counterstrike I would think that you would want to roll the defense.

[LilNewbie]

Most of the time you just don't need to roll defense if the attacker "whiffs". You still roll defense so counterstikers get the chance to hit on shields. Poor attacker. :johnwoo2:

Newb.

[Ch1can0]

thx!

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Hi,

if i´m attacked only by blanks&shields, i don´t need to roll for defence, can i counterstrike such an attack? thx for info.

Chicano.

Correct, you don't need to roll for the defense, but in the case of counterstrike I would think that you would want to roll the defense.

And when no skulls are present, it's the absolute best time to roll. The look of 'uh-oh' on the attacker's face is always priceless. :D

[sigmazero13]

For the rules lawyer in us all, it should be noted that technically you probably should HAVE to roll defense even on a whiff (Counterstrike or no). However, I don't think that even the most anal rules lawyer would force a defense roll in situations where there is no point in making one.

[Agent Minivann]

I believe that it states in the rules somewhere that when this happens you have to say "Sucker!" when you successfully roll a shield.

[netherspirit]

For the rules lawyer in us all, it should be noted that technically you probably should HAVE to roll defense even on a whiff (Counterstrike or no). However, I don't think that even the most anal rules lawyer would force a defense roll in situations where there is no point in making one.

I believe Hasbro ruled that you can choose how many dice to roll. I think our question was about Krug and if you could attack him with your own guy and choose not to roll defense. I am pretty sure they said yes to both.

[LilNewbie]

Actually I think the ruling from Hasbro was you had to roll the maximum dice for an attack or defense so you can't attack your own Krug and then choose not to roll any defense. The not rolling on a "whiff" is just to save time. Sigmazero13 is technically correct, in that you should roll defense all the time even in a full miss situation but the only time it matters is for a unit that is defending with a counterstrike ability.

Newb.

[netherspirit]

hmmm what was I thinking of then....dunno....

[geddy lifeson]

I have actually a bad habit of rolling zero attack dice against those with counterstrike...it sucks!

[MacG]

I have actually a bad habit of rolling zero attack dice against those with counterstrike...it sucks!

Man, I thought I had it bad because I keep rolling zero hits with six or seven attack dice attacking samurai with Drake. You don't even roll the dice?

Brave, man, brave!

:twisted:

[StarSlayer]

There was some confusion about how many die to roll and if you could choose not to. the first answer was you could pick and choose how many, yada yada...
They changed that ruling the next day after talking with designers, the corrected answer is you must always roll the full number of dice.

[Rÿchean]

There was some confusion about how many die to roll and if you could choose not to. the first answer was you could pick and choose how many, yada yada...
They changed that ruling the next day after talking with designers, the corrected answer is you must always roll the full number of dice.

I have the exact same recollection of this information.

[LilNewbie]

Yep, there was a retraction the next day. There was a big hubub after the first ruling. Then the furor died down after they changed it to you must roll maximum allowed dice for attacking and defending.

Newb.

[ServantOfUtgar]

For the rules lawyer in us all, it should be noted that technically you probably should HAVE to roll defense even on a whiff (Counterstrike or no). However, I don't think that even the most anal rules lawyer would force a defense roll in situations where there is no point in making one.

I believe Hasbro ruled that you can choose how many dice to roll. I think our question was about Krug and if you could attack him with your own guy and choose not to roll defense. I am pretty sure they said yes to both.

The original ruling was you did not have to roll all the dice. They then back peddled and said you have to roll the max. It was about Krug.

[RobWeaver]

I think rolling a defense roll when you weren't hit is parsing the rules too closely. If you did that to me with the Samurai, I'd let you do it, as apparently there is nothing specifically to prevent it, but I'd never play the game with you again. Ever.

[netherspirit]

I think rolling a defense roll when you weren't hit is parsing the rules too closely. If you did that to me with the Samurai, I'd let you do it, as apparently there is nothing specifically to prevent it, but I'd never play the game with you again. Ever.

Thats the only time it matters. If you don't wanna play by the rules then don't play the game. Or don't attack my samurai, because thats the only time I will roll defense if you roll all blanks. :P

[MacG]

I think rolling a defense roll when you weren't hit is parsing the rules too closely. If you did that to me with the Samurai, I'd let you do it, as apparently there is nothing specifically to prevent it, but I'd never play the game with you again. Ever.

I'm betting you don't draft the samurai much under your house rules. It's cheating to let them use their special power? Huh?

Just in case you're unclear, the samurai practice the art of fast draw and response. (Iujutsu?) Watch a Kurusawa (sp?) samurai movie. Often the guy who moves first is dead because of the lightning defense of the other samurai.

Rolling zero hits indicates the attacker getting out of position. It is natural (and REQUIRED by the rules) for the Samurai to riposte.

[netherspirit]

Just in case you're unclear, the samurai practice the art of fast draw and response. (Iujutsu?)

I created a samurai custom with a power called Iujutsu, it is in fact the art of drawing their sword fast. :)

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I think rolling a defense roll when you weren't hit is parsing the rules too closely. If you did that to me with the Samurai, I'd let you do it, as apparently there is nothing specifically to prevent it, but I'd never play the game with you again. Ever.

:shock:

That's the whole point with the Izumi, Sagawa, or the 'King', Rob! It's a scary, very real possibility when you engage them. There's nothing unsavory in HS sportsmanship to roll defense on blank attack dice when you have counterstrike!

[RobWeaver]

Yeah - I agree that the samurai are terrifying to attack in melee. I would risk a parting shot from them before fighting them. I just don't feel right about counterstriking an attack that had no chance of success. (Sorry - I also didn't mean to sound quite as snobby as I did either.)

[RobWeaver]

Sorry to double-post, and this is probably a self-evident and kinda stupid question, but I guess that applies to Charos, too? That 210 point dragon was hard enough to kill already!

[StarSlayer]

Yes it would apply to that 210 point dragon. dont wiff a roll when attacking him.

[halo242]

To make it more spatial and realistic, you can think about i like this: in real life if someone attacks you with a sword and completely misses you [the equivalent of 0 skull roll] and you had an opening to attack them while they stumbled past you, would you not take it?

[RichardD]

I just don't feel right about counterstriking an attack that had no chance of success.

It *had* a chance of success - but you blew the dice roll. Don't worry too much - there's always a chance that I'll miss with my defence dice :)

[RobWeaver]

Maybe I'm just sore that I didn't think of it first!

[Agent Minivann]

To make it more spatial and realistic, you can think about i like this: in real life if someone attacks you with a sword and completely misses you [the equivalent of 0 skull roll] and you had an opening to attack them while they stumbled past you, would you not take it?

I for one would go Highlander on the sucker. There can be , after all, only one.

[feekonea]

Okay so I guess the makers say that you must always rollall of the attack or defense dice, however is this every single time, or can you always just choose not to?

[halo242]

Okay so I guess the makers say that you must always rollall of the attack or defense dice, however is this every single time, or can you always just choose not to?

Technically, every time you attack you must roll all attack dice,and every time you defend, regardless of how many skulls the attacker got, you must always roll all defense dice.

[vernz]

i know i would roll for the counterstrike even if my opponent had all blanks cause its there ability so why not use it

[daevablacc]

I'm glad this came up coz I was thinking what Netherspirit had been thinking regarding whether you could choose how many dice to roll. So does that mean if an opponent leaves engagement that I would be forced to take a parting shot at him? Even if I wanted to let him go to attack a different opponent?

[Rÿchean]

per rules 2nd edition....

Leaving an engagement:

....the figure MAY take a passing swipe...

[Aranas]

This is not the same thing.

From the FAQ:

Can a figure take a swipe at another when he passes adjacent to him on his way somewhere else?
You can blow right past someone - but when you leave their adjacency, they will get the option of taking a free, undefendable swipe at you.

So, passing swipe is optional.

Aranas

[daevablacc]

Thanx guys. I forgot about that. Gettin' senile... :screwy:

[Satyr]

per rules 2nd edition....

Leaving an engagement:

....the figure MAY take a passing swipe...

Interesting ... adds a whole new dimension of wheeling and dealing to multi player games. We've had Charos and Brunak going head to head for rounds before. No one willing to leave and go after easier pickings 'cause of the leaving engagement strike ... or maybe we are just stubborn.

[RobWeaver]

I'll risk a passing engagement with a hero almost any time, unless that hero is one of the DW family. I won't try to break contact with a squad member, though. The risk is just too great, and usually the pay-off isn't high enough.

[Aranas]

That's true Rob but sometimes it is worth the risk. It did for me in a 3 player game where we had to be the first to kill the player on our left. I had only one Krav Maga left, the guy I had to kill still had Syvarrys with 2 life left and the third party (on my right, trying to kill me) still having two samurai and a unwounded Krug engaged with my KMA. I disengaged and Krug rolled blank! I then managed to kill Syvarrys and won the game!

[RobWeaver]

I'd break my own practice for a final turn act of desperation move like that, too! I heard an old saying, "Never push a desperate foe." When you think you have nothing left, you're likely to do some crazy things which you'd never recommend to anyone else, that somehow work. According to Virgil: "The best hope of the vanquished is to have no hope." Speaking of Krug, he charged into two squads of 4th Mass last night. He took one of them down, but the other finally shot him full of holes enough to get him to lay down and die. He was taking fire from all over the board. Gosh - that dudes got a lot of life points!

[Tiberius]

I agree with Rob that I typically would never break engagement unless I was really desperate. Though on to the subject of Krug, I have not had very good luck with him. My opponents vipers normally take him down in a round or two after engagement. Of course my D20s love the frenzy. But Krugs life has never been quite enough when I use him.

[RobWeaver]

I've played Krug a couple of times and I like him. He does what ogres are supposed to do - get out there, break things and die hard. He's expensive, though. One of my best friends to game with likes small games, and I'd rather have a couple squads of shooters than Krug in a small game. Krug reminds me of the Ogre Champion in the old BattleMasters game. Hard to get into position, and gets shot up from turn 1, but when the cards are right, he'll wipe out half the enemy line.

[AnubisGX]

Hi,

if i´m attacked only by blanks&shields, i don´t need to roll for defence, can i counterstrike such an attack? thx for info.

Chicano.

As mentioned before, you have to defend against an attack, but if it's 0 skulls, save time and don't bother. But if you have counterstrike, this is the moment that all counterstrikers wait for! Roll those shields baby!
Another thing to remember, counterstrike only works on normal attacks, so if your opponent whiffs a special attack, no counterstriking today.

[morgonis]

attacking a samari always fills the attacker with trepidation.....nut the outright fear displayed openly upon the attackers face when they roll all blanks on the attack.....almost priceless

the shift of fear to "in your face victory danceing" when the samarai roll all blanks on thier defense against the blank rolling attacker....priceless

[RobWeaver]

LOL - In this whole thread, I completely forgot that the chance exists for the samurai to whiff, too! In our last game the samurai were played, they came on as reinforcements. The moment they arrived, they were continually pounded by ranged fire from every corner of the board. They became the high-payoff target for everybody. As a result, I don't think a single one ever closed to attack range. What's the name of that battle in the early 16th century where the arquebus-armed ashigaru mowed down the samurai?

[RobWeaver]

Sorry to double post. Nagashino, June 28, 1575.

[AmishBurrito]

question, i hope this hasnt been answered already. But with the counterstrike, it says "normal attack" does it have to say "special attack" to count it as not a normal attack (ex: Agent Carr uses his sword, the sword is a "special power" but does that mean it is not a "normal attack")?

[Teamski]

question, i hope this hasnt been answered already. But with the counterstrike, it says "normal attack" does it have to say "special attack" to count it as not a normal attack (ex: Agent Carr uses his sword, the sword is a "special power" but does that mean it is not a "normal attack")?


Yes. There is a distinct difference between the two. So, if anybody attacks the Samurai with a special attack, they cannot counterattack!

Agent Carr's sword is indeed a special ability, and is NOT a special attack. He attacks normally.....

-Ski

[sigmazero13]

To add to what Teamski said, too, the way to tell if an ability constitutes a special attack is that if it does, it will specifically use the phrase "special attack" (and in most cases, the phrase will be in the TITLE of the ability, like Mimring's "Fire Line Special Attack".

[StarSlayer]

And special attacks will list the attack value and a range.

[Jandars_Hope]

Glad thats been cleared up!