Trial of Nightcrawler (custom by GreyOwl)

[whitestuff]

LET'S DO THIS THING :!:

The urbane GreyOwl provides the next card for trial.
All are welcome and encouraged to bring their admonitions, propositions and encouragements. Please be aware of the discussion guidelines (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9759&start=0) for TNT trials.

Behold, GreyOwl's interpretation of... Nightcrawler

*edit* - LATEST VERSION
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/NIGHTCRAWLER-4.png

Original Version
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/NIGHTCRAWLER.png


Judges status on this Card:
whitestuff - http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/approved.gif
rdhight - http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/approved.gif
Boromir_&_kermit - http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/approved.gif

Any play-testing should only include this custom and official units or other previously appointed TNT customs. To provide a suitable and diverse proving ground, play-testing with both Classicscape and Marvelscape is recommended.

Ideas for play-tests:
1 - Using only Nightcrawler and original Heroscape figures. Each team (consisting of no more than 300 points) should have 2 heroes (max) and squads. Other heroes should be of similar point value to Nightcrawler (Mimring, DW 9000, Cyprien). If Nightcrawler is balanced then the battles between similarly pointed figures should be close contests.
2 - Test him on a battlefield with great height variation, castle walls and LOS blockers. This will allow for Nightcrawler to make the greatest use of his "Bamf" ability.

Already completed play-tests:
1. Boromir_and_kermit's truncated play-test's. Spidey (2)vs Nightcrawler (1) (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=317732#344392)
2. whitestuff's two three-way play-tests. Q9 (2) vs Spidey (0) vs Nightcrawler (0) (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=318087#344762)
3. Boromir_and_kermit's supers smackdown featuring Captain America and Iron Man VS. Doctor Doom and Nightcrawler (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=318095#344770)
4.
5.

For official information about Nightcrawler, consult the official Marvel Nightcrawler page. (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Nightcrawler) For further information, including information about Nightcrawler in the X-Men films, consult the wikipedia article. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcrawler_%28comics%29)

The journey's about to begin people, let's cast a collective critical eye and polish this baby 'till it shines :D

[Grungebob]

Another good comic custom. You guys rock. My nitpics?

-The pic used is confusing to look at

-If you changed his height to medium 5 he could crawl up to the wharehouse platform

-The D20 chart for his teleport is unnecessarily long whinded. Just give 3 result variations or 4 at most.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Cool, interesting custom!

I was always a fan of Nightcrawler, great character. (Another really expensive clix figure:wink: :lol: )

Let me just confirm a few things before I start to look at playtesting.
With the ability BAMFI, is that usable once per turn or can he relinquish all three of his attacks and move to pretty much anywhere on the map? Also teleporting any direction including up and down. Does that mean he ignores height? Or that you count height as you would when climbing? I think this needs to be more clear.
I think it needs rewording to sound more official, but if you've seen my cards, you know I'm not the best at doing that :D

I am a little surprised not to see some sort of abilty to use his teleportation as a defence against attacks but that's fine of course. I know he is extremely mobile, but with 3 life, Nightcrawler will not last long. I would consider (at this early stage :wink:) bumping him up to 4 life.

I can say with assurance, that I will enjoy playtesting this guy, I can't wait to see how the BAMFI ability plays out! I look forward to some good discussion.

Awesome custom GreyOwl, congrats!

Ben.

[Tiberius]

Is anyone allowed to comment or is this reserved for judges only? On the chance I am allowed to comment, here is what I have for Kurt Wagner. When I think of nightcrawler two things come to mind, a swashbuckling teleporter and great agility of an acrobat. I am not sure we cover those with your interpretation of nightcrawler but again it is your interpretation. My recommendations would be, Make the teleport simpler, Just let it replace his move completely (like flying does) and keep the does not take leaving engagement attacks. I do like the randomness of the teleport but if I am losing my attack to it, I definately need it to work for his cost. Triple attack, a very good attempt at putting in the swashbuckling acrobat (along with the climb x 2). What I would suggest:
1. Teleport as I talked about above
2. lose the triple attack and either give him Isamu's ninja dissappear ability or some type of stealth dodge.
3. With teleport, the climbx2 is all but useless. I think it adds flavor but we can replace it with a fuselage special attack (where he would have to stay within his teleport range, hit someone and move away from them - the total movement must be equal to or less than your total teleport range).

Just a few suggestions if I were to make my interpretation of Kurt. What do you guys think. By the way, the stats and and cost are great. Though the cost might increase if any of my ideas were implemented, as it would make him way more dangerous and harder to kill. Though triple attacks are nothing to sneeze at. Overall good job on him, not what I would have done, but it doesnt make yours bad or wrong. I like it.

[Grungebob]

Wow!! You guys really give some excellent input!! MAN! The Marvel Custom scene is where it's at!!

[Tiberius]

I find it easier to comment on an established character especially when I know thier capabilities and personality. So superheroes is where it is at for me.

[Grungebob]

I find it easier to comment on an established character especially when I know thier capabilities and personality. So superheroes is where it is at for me.Excellent! I am really impressed with all of you Hero customs guys! Real quality work!! I feel like I can use so many of these customs in my Marvel games!

[whitestuff]

A couple of things -

Why chose BAMFI as apposed to BAMF. When teleporting, Nightcrawler leaves behind a small portion of the atmosphere of the other dimension that escapes with a muffled “bamf” sound and smells of brimstone.

I am completely confused by the targeting zone. What is that a picture of?

I agree with others comments about his Climbx2. Seems a little redundant to me.

I love the triple attack. The only thing I'd consider is making it possible to teleport between attacks. That would be cool as :D

I'm not sure what font you used but it looks quite pixelated and choppy. The text on the left hand side doesn't seem to be a heavy enough font and the abilities test is a bit too small.

I'm not sure how I feel about the choice of 'Adventurer'. I'll ponder this one further.

Did you fade out the main picture? If so why? I'd like to see it without.

As for costing, I'll have to play-test him and get back to you :)

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

A couple things to add, on top of everyone else's.
I am completely confused by the targeting zone. What is that a picture of?It is this figure:
http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/Rotating/HMFF/HMFF_082.jpg That should clear up the hit zone problems, but why make the rock targetable? And why not use this figure? http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/Rotating/HMCT/HMCT_085_rot01.jpg Unless of course you only have the first one.

More comments:
-I am ok with the many different distances for BAMF(I). I just think it needs some clarification and should be formatted like Kelda's and Cyprien'spowers, with bullets. I'd also chage the second to last sentence to "When teleporting, Nightcrawler may ignore elevation changes, pass over obsticles and figure without becoming engaged."
-Triple attack is good, and I like that he can teleport between two of his attacks, very cool.
-Climb can stay, it's not redundant because he can only teleport instead of an attack. He can use climb to get somewhere, attack, teleport, and attack again.
-The picture is a little confusing at first, but once I saw what it was I really liked it.

EDIT: This needs to be stickied :wink:

[allskulls]

I like the figure he is using. It shows the Bamfing (that's not a rock :wink: ) and the sword carrying one is an Ebay monster :shock:

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

I like the figure he is using. It shows the Bamfing (that's not a rock :wink: ) and the sword carrying one is an Ebay monster :shock:And lack of comic book/Heroclix knowledge shows up yet again :oops: .

[Tiberius]

Ah, it is his brimstone cloud, I was wondering about that. I would make the cloud untargetable because it hides his location making him harder to target and hit.

Oh and if the triple attack works in conjunction with bamf, that is awesome, giving up one or two of the attacks to teleport around is cool. You need to make that more specific that it works together like that. Walk in, attack, teleport out to another target, giving up second attack and taking third attack on another target, awesome. I like that alot.

[Grungebob]

Ah, it is his brimstone cloud, I was wondering about that. I would make the cloud untargetable because it hides his location making him harder to target and hit.

Oh and if the triple attack works in conjunction with bamf, that is awesome, giving up one or two of the attacks to teleport around is cool. You need to make that more specific that it works together like that. Walk in, attack, teleport out to another target, giving up second attack and taking third attack on another target, awesome. I like that alot.Very cool suggestions!!

[GreyOwl]

Some grat comments! Here are the answers, as best I can provide them:

First off, I got my Marvelscape in and scanned the cards. So I'll update this so it doesn't have that awful border.

For teleporting, yes he ignores height and can do it up to 3 times per turn if he doesn't attack. The effect I was trying to replicate is where he teleports, attack someone, instantly teleports to another opponent, attack them, etc. So he can already teleport in between his three attacks.

Height 4 vs. 5 - I don't really want to change it just so he can do something specific. The character is short, so I think he'd have to live within the limitations of that. Plus he can always teleport to the top of the warehouse wall.

As far as using teleportation as a defense, I like the idea. Any suggestions how to implement it?

For Life, I agree and I'm going to bump it up to 4.

Oh, and it should be BAMF! not BAMFI. For some reason, the JPEG conversion made it look funny. I'll try doing it another way.

I agree that Climb X2 can be kind of useless with teleport, although there are cases where it's not. Maybe it can be replaced with a way to use teleport for defense?

I don't want to make teleport instead of his move, because it is in addition to it. I want him to have the feel of teleporting from one opponent to the next while attacking.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Ah, it is his brimstone cloud, I was wondering about that. I would make the cloud untargetable because it hides his location making him harder to target and hit.

Oh and if the triple attack works in conjunction with bamf, that is awesome, giving up one or two of the attacks to teleport around is cool. You need to make that more specific that it works together like that. Walk in, attack, teleport out to another target, giving up second attack and taking third attack on another target, awesome. I like that alot.The first line of Teleport says "Instead of one attack," so its already clarified in there. That's why I like teleport alot, move, attack, teleport, attack.

[johnny139]

How about instead of Climb x2, something like "If Nightcrawler is the targer of a normal attack, before rolling defense dice, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may teleport Nightcrawler up to 5 spaces."

Something in that vein.

[GreyOwl]

Okay, here is an updated card:

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

Summary of changes:
- cosmetic (border, colors, changed picture fog from white to black)
- life from 3 to 4
- removed "Climb X2"
- added "Teleport and Evade"
- bumped his cost up slightly to compensate for "Teleport and Evade"
- alternate way to save image, so fonts look more like what I see. BAMF! no longer looks like BAMFI. :)

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Really like the color on the new card. Great job there. :thumbsup:

[GreyOwl]

Thanks! Once I made high-res scans of the official cards, I started using the color replacement tool in Photoshop to make different colors. I have 3 sets - one for borders, one for the colored panels (left box and top box), and for different color fogs. They are in transparent PNG files so they can be layered for all different combinations. I'll post the set if anyone is interested, once I get them finished (still making more colors). So with about 10 colors each for border, panel, and fog, it should allow for 1000 combinations, with only 30 image files that can be mixed and matched. :)

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not sold on "Adventurer" for his class, either. I willing to listen to any good suggestions. I normally like to use the official ones as much as possible, but if there's really no good fit I have no issue with using a custom one.

[IAmBatman]

I think you might want to change the wording on BAMF! to "Instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport between his remaining two attacks.
Or something along those lines so it's completely clear that there's a break between the traditional do all your move, then do all of your attack mechanics.
Oh, and Grungebob, glad you're enjoying the process here. Allskulls' idea for the TNTs are really making this an awesome place to custom.
And Tiberius or anyone else wondering - your comments/critiques/playtesting results are always welcome in these threads, whether you're judging or not. :D

[GreyOwl]

But he can teleport instead of ANY of the three attacks, not just one of them. So he could not teleport at all and attack 3 times, teleport once and attack twice, teleport twice and attack once, or teleport 3 times and not attack at all. Any suggestions on how to word it properly as to convey that?

[Grungebob]

Thanks! Once I made high-res scans of the official cards, I started using the color replacement tool in Photoshop to make different colors. I have 3 sets - one for borders, one for the colored panels (left box and top box), and for different color fogs. They are in transparent PNG files so they can be layered for all different combinations. I'll post the set if anyone is interested, once I get them finished (still making more colors). So with about 10 colors each for border, panel, and fog, it should allow for 1000 combinations, with only 30 image files that can be mixed and matched. :)

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not sold on "Adventurer" for his class, either. I willing to listen to any good suggestions. I normally like to use the official ones as much as possible, but if there's really no good fit I have no issue with using a custom one.You'll need to reduce his defense a tad with that teleport and evade.

[IAmBatman]

But he can teleport instead of ANY of the three attacks, not just one of them. So he could not teleport at all and attack 3 times, teleport once and attack twice, teleport twice and attack once, or teleport 3 times and not attack at all. Any suggestions on how to word it properly as to convey that?

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the case. You see the need for clarification on this, though?
I'm not sure the best way to word it either.
Hmm ... maybe:

After moving, Nightcrawler may choose to teleport instead of making any one of his normal attacks. To teleport, roll the 20-sided die ...

It's not perfect, but I think that "after moving" clarification at least will help you understand that the Bamf! power triggers during the attack phase of his turn.

[GreyOwl]

You'll need to reduce his defense a tad with that teleport and evade.

I agree. Card updated to lower Defense to 4.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a.... (insert rolls here)... To teleport, place Nightcrawler up to X spaces away from his current space where X is the number of spaces rolled. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement attacks when teleporting and may use Bamf! more than once per turn.
I don't know if that does it, but there's my shot at it.

[IAmBatman]

I think you're closer than I was, Hi!

[GreyOwl]

The card already says that he can teleport more than once per turn. So is it enough if I just add the "After moving..." part ?

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think that might cover it, GreyOwl. I'm not judging this one, though. :D

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

The card already says that he can teleport more than once per turn. So is it enough if I just add the "After moving..." part ?Yea I just wrote the rest cause I wanted a longer post. :wink: Ok actually it never says what "teleporting" is, just you can move up down and any direction. Are spaces counted like a regular move, or like flying?

[GreyOwl]

They're counted like flying. I will clarify that in the text.

[GreyOwl]

How's this for rewording BAMF! :

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1, teleportation failed. If you roll 2 - 5, teleport up to 2 spaces. If your roll 5 - 10, teleport up to 4 spaces. If you roll 11 - 15, teleport up to 6 spaces. If you roll 16 - 18, teleport up to 8 spaces. If your roll 19, teleport up to 10 spaces. If you roll 20, teleport up to 12 spaces. When teleporting, Nightcrawler ignores elevations, obstacles, and other figures, and does not take any disengagement strikes. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

How's this for rewording BAMF! :

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1, teleportation failed. If you roll 2 - 5, teleport up to 2 spaces. If your roll 5 - 10, teleport up to 4 spaces. If you roll 11 - 15, teleport up to 6 spaces. If you roll 16 - 18, teleport up to 8 spaces. If your roll 19, teleport up to 10 spaces. If you roll 20, teleport up to 12 spaces. When teleporting, Nightcrawler ignores elevations, obstacles, and other figures, and does not take any disengagement strikes. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.
I don't know if this adds way too much text to the card, but if its counted like flying you could replace "When teleporting....disengagement strikes." with the wording for flying:

"When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf!, ignore elevations. Nightercrawler may teleport over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such a ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks."

[IAmBatman]

It'd fit better if the D20 roll was trimmed to about 4 possibilities. But ... that's not my call. :P

[GreyOwl]

It'd fit better if the D20 roll was trimmed to about 4 possibilities. But ... that's not my call. :P

Maybe I can remove the roll of 1 resulting in a failed teleportation. I don't actually recall Nightcrawler EVER failing at teleportation.

[GreyOwl]

How's this? I think I might be able to fit this on the card. If not, I can shorten some the standard "flying" text.

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, move up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, move up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, move up to 10 spaces. If you roll 20, move up to 12 spaces. When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf!, ignore elevations. Nightrcrawler may teleport over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such a ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

How's this? I think I might be able to fit this on the card. If not, I can shorten some the standard "flying" text.

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, move up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, move up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, move up to 10 spaces. If you roll 20, move up to 12 spaces. When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf!, ignore elevations. ****Nightrcrawler may teleport over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such a ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn. :thumbsup:

Except it says Nightrcrawler where the *** 's are.

[NecroBlade]

Not to nitpick and add more wording...but isn't Nightcrawler supposed to have "clear sight" to the space he's trying to Bamf! to?

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Not to nitpick and add more wording...but isn't Nightcrawler supposed to have "clear sight" to the space he's trying to Bamf! to?Yea :duh: in the comics he has to have seen the place before.

[allskulls]

Not to nitpick and add more wording...but isn't Nightcrawler supposed to have "clear sight" to the space he's trying to Bamf! to?Yea :duh: in the comics he has to have seen the place before.
He can teleport to a place he has not seen but he then risks the possibility of ending up in a wall or something like that.

EDIT: This was shown in X-Men 2 when he teleported with Storm into the copy of Cerebro where Professor X was held captive.

[GreyOwl]

He teleports to other dimensions, so I don't think he has to see it first. True, he does risk messing it up if he hasn't seen it before, but that risk always seems to be downplayed in the comics and never seems to be a real issue. But in either case, he doesn't have to be able to currently see it, but just have seen it in the past. I figured that would overly-complicate the game to try and keep track of whether he's ever seen a space or not.

Spelling corrected:

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, move up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, move up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, move up to 10 spaces. If you roll 20, move up to 12 spaces. When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf!, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may teleport over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such a ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Nothing big, but in official powers they say "If you rolla 1-7, " it would just make the power slightly easier to read with the articles in there. And I agree that keeping track of which spaces he has "seen" is too complicated.

[GreyOwl]

Nothing big, but in official powers they say "If you rolla 1-7, " it would just make the power slightly easier to read with the articles in there. And I agree that keeping track of which spaces he has "seen" is too complicated.

I think they only use the article when they reference a single number and leave it out when they talk about a range. For example, see the Cyprien Esenwein card (in this thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9609&start=0)). It says "If you roll 1-12..." then later it says "If you roll a 20 or higher..."

EDIT: That being said, it seems I did it incorrectly on the roll of 20. So here's the corrected version.

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, move up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, move up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, move up to 10 spaces. If you roll a 20, move up to 12 spaces. When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf!, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may teleport over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such a ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Hmmm, interesting. I think the no article use only applies when you use a bulletted list. Take a look at Deadeye's Sharpshooter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8106) or better examples in the Wolves (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8426) and Deathwalker 7000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8583).

Ok its your decision because I looked up Marro Drones (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8280) and they do not use an article, so official Heroscape varies.

[GreyOwl]

Then I will go with whatever is shorter, since room on the card is limited. :)

[IAmBatman]

always a good rule of thumb, IMO.

[Firemaster]

You could shorten the text by just saying 'place Nightcrawler on X space' That way you don't need all the flying type text, and really, Nightcrawler isn't moving when he teleports, per se; he is being placed from one spot to another.

[NecroBlade]

You could shorten the text by just saying 'place Nightcrawler on X space' That way you don't need all the flying type text, and really, Nightcrawler isn't moving when he teleports, per se; he is being placed from one spot to another./sign

[IAmBatman]

You could shorten the text by just saying 'place Nightcrawler on X space' That way you don't need all the flying type text, and really, Nightcrawler isn't moving when he teleports, per se; he is being placed from one spot to another./sign

/cosign

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a.... (insert rolls here)... To teleport, place Nightcrawler up to X spaces away from his current space where X is the number of spaces rolled. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement attacks when teleporting and may use Bamf! more than once per turn.
I don't know if that does it, but there's my shot at it. Uhh, like that ^ :)

[IAmBatman]

I can neither confirm nor deny that those two things are alike. :D

[GreyOwl]

Okay, how about this:

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. To teleport, roll the 20-sided die and place Nightcrawler on another space within the allowed distance. If you roll 1-7, teleport up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, teleport up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, teleport up to 10 spaces. If you roll a 20, teleport up to 12 spaces. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

[Firemaster]

Okay, how about this:

After moving and instead of one attack, Nightcrawler may teleport. To teleport, roll the 20-sided die and place Nightcrawler on another space within the allowed distance. If you roll 1-7, teleport up to 4 spaces. If your roll 8-15, teleport up to 8 spaces. If you roll 16-19, teleport up to 10 spaces. If you roll a 20, teleport up to 12 spaces. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler can use Bamf! more than once per turn.

That looks much better.

[GreyOwl]

The card above was updated to reflect the new wording.

EDIT: I'm including the link here for convenience, since the picture is several pages back.

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

[IAmBatman]

Looks good from here.

[Grungebob]

In Teleport and evade it says Nightcrawler take no damage. It should say Nightcrawlwer takes no damage...

[GreyOwl]

In Teleport and evade it says Nightcrawler take no damage. It should say Nightcrawlwer takes no damage...

Thanks! I updated the card to fix this typo.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Wow, I guess this is what living on the other side of the world does to people. I've missed out on half the conversation!! :( :wink:

I really like the rewording of his BAMF! power and the addition of his Teleport and Evade is more thematic. Having him able to avoid attacks (as he often does in the comics), I think is integral to the character. Nice work!

I agree on Adventurer... hmmm doesn't sit quite right. Not sure what to replace it with. I'll have a think and I'll get back to you.
EDIT: Can we use Acrobat Nice and simple, plus it's correct thematically. :?:

I think this custom fits thematically, is now visually appealing. Just the left side to probably iron out (Adventurer) and then we can start playtesting.
Going very nicely!!
Ben.

[MacG]

Great card! I love the art, especially.

Am I the only one looking at this and thinking,

Style - A+ Captures his abilities and use in comics perfectly

Attack - great, A-
Triple attack is a bit much, but it lets him do the bamf hit bamf hit trick like in the comics. Seems a little mean to the Red Skull and Spidey, though, who also have shown the ability to attack more than one guy at a time. I might like this better if he just got a free move and attack as part of a turn. "After you move and attack with Nightcrawler, you may move and attack again." I realize that my way is less flexible, but I'd argue that using triple attack as a triple attack is nothing he does as compared to Spidey. (Spidey hits just as many guys in a turn, but he does it with cool spider fu.) Nightcrawler uses the teleport trick instead.

Defense - hmmm, B-
I just don't see him suddenly reflex t-port from danger, warned by some abstruse inner sense like Spidey and Venom do. Right now, you have him magically sensing danger and porting away as if he had spider-sense. In fact, he's better at it than Venom is, and Venom even HAS that power in the comics. I'd be more comfortable if your teleport and evade did something on HIS turn (like give Nightcrawler defense dice or something) than if it interrupted and cancelled like spidey sense. Usually, when Kurt does this, he's luring two goons into shooting at him and then he teleports away, allowing them to peg each other. I'm a big Nightcrawler fan, but I think you've given him powers he doesn't actually own here.

[rdhight]

The first card was one of the strongest set of movement powers I've seen. It must have been difficult to reconcile the teleportation and acrobatic aspects, but you did a great job on that. If teleporting replaced moving, much of the agility factor would be lost. Since you have to take your move phase before teleporting or attacking, might as well get some use out of that nice 7 move with Climb! Also, I was glad that he did not automatically teleport when attacked-- it forced players to use the flexibility of multiple Bamfs per turn to think ahead rather than leave him in danger and count on a powerful d20 "ignore all damage" power to keep him safe. If you want to protect him, you have to play carefully, not just pick a figure with "teleporting Vanish" and hope it goes off. You made him very distinct both from high-reflexes swing-liners/ninjas/Batman on the one hand and from fliers on the other hand.

I agree that swapping in Teleport and Evade for Climb makes him stronger in combat, but I think it seriously weakens his flavor and brings him too close to Spider-Man and ninja territory. As pointed out, he has reflexes that put him in a class with the spider-sensitives.

That's just my opinion. If you decide that a disappear-out-of-the-gunsights feel is essential, that's your right, but I personally think you lost flavor when you made that change. The interchangability of attacking or teleporting is powerful-- make players use that power to Bamf him to safety on his own turn.

Here are the little things I do think you need to look at clarifying:

1. I would explicitly state whether or not he can use Bamf! more than once per turn. Mechanically, I like it a lot, but the "in place of one attack" is an open invitation to rules lawyering. And he doesn't need the "After attacking" rule. I would begin the text, "Instead of any or all attacks, Nightcrawler may teleport."

2. There's also an "if your roll" typo tucked away in there.

3. Teleporting is weaker if it mimics flying, because of the way flying interacts with overhangs. As it's written now, he can just count X spaces horizontally and place himself on any hex in that "column," whether he can make it to the edge of any overhangs involved or not. Is that what you intended?

EDIT: 4. I was surprised to see no mention of his faith. Maybe make him a Devout Adventurer?

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Theme wise I think that the Teleport and Evade is appropriate. I don't see it as him sensing danger, but completing his move. In the comics, Nightcrawler rarely teleports in and then stays there to duke it out, he teleports in attacks, teleports, moves, attacks, he doesn't stick around. He's always moving. I see it as an extention of his move.

I understand the climb ability will help with his 7 move, but if he wanted to get to higher ground he should really use his teleport, thus relinquishing an attack. It makes it more strategic to have to use it that way. What do you want, a height advantage, or the extra attack. It provides more decisions and I think is better theme-wise as well.

Anyways, just thought I'd put in my reasoning for liking it the way it is. I don't expect everyone/anyone to agree. Just justifying my position. :D

It's great that so many people are interested in the custom GreyOwl!

Ben.

[GreyOwl]

First, the easy stuff:

1. I would explicitly state whether or not he can use Bamf! more than once per turn. Mechanically, I like it a lot, but the "in place of one attack" is an open invitation to rules lawyering. And he doesn't need the "After attacking" rule. I would begin the text, "Instead of any or all attacks, Nightcrawler may teleport."


The last line in Bamf! already says it can be used more than once. It also says "After you move..." at the beginning. You may be looking at the older version of the card on the first page.


2. There's also an "if your roll" typo tucked away in there.


Corrected. Thanks.


3. Teleporting is weaker if it mimics flying, because of the way flying interacts with overhangs. As it's written now, he can just count X spaces horizontally and place himself on any hex in that "column," whether he can make it to the edge of any overhangs involved or not. Is that what you intended?


I'm not sure I completely understood your example, but teleport is not exactly like flying. It is irrelevant what is in between where you are and where you're going. You simply "appear" on a new space. Does that help?


EDIT: 4. I was surprised to see no mention of his faith. Maybe make him a Devout Adventurer?

I considered making his class "Priest" or something like that. Or the "Devout Adventurer" may work, too. What does everyone else think?


Okay, now for the more difficult one. :)

Both rdhight and MacG mentioned that Teleport and Evade was too much like Spider-Sense. I think this ability implies more things that just pre-awarness of an attack like it does on Spider-Man (much like how Defense can mean "toughness" or "agility" depending on the figure). With Spider-Man and Venom, it implies an awareness ahead of time that an attack is coming along with superhuman reflexes. With the Ninja, it implies refined, but not superhuman, reflexes but no pre-awareness. With Nightcrawler, it represents that he is harder to see and has an actual ability to do this. Given this, opponents would be slower to attack him because they have trouble spotting him. Therefore, he has more time to react, which is just like having faster reflexes. This ability is stated in official Marvel sources:

From Marvel.com:

[Nightcrawler] can render himself nigh-invisible in shadows by manipulating the ever-present portal to the dimension he teleports through so as to bend light around himself.


So I think it is still thematic and fits in with his character, even though it isn't an ability that is explicitly mentioned very often. Just my opinion, of course. :)

EDIT: I just read Boromir_and_kermit's post, who must have posted while I was typing. I think that's another equally valid way that the ability fits thematically. :)

[IAmBatman]

Let the record show that I, for one, like the current selection of powers. That should be taken with a grain of salt, though, as I really haven't read the character that much in the comics. (DC guy).

[rdhight]

First, the easy stuff:

1. I would explicitly state whether or not he can use Bamf! more than once per turn. Mechanically, I like it a lot, but the "in place of one attack" is an open invitation to rules lawyering. And he doesn't need the "After attacking" rule. I would begin the text, "Instead of any or all attacks, Nightcrawler may teleport."


The last line in Bamf! already says it can be used more than once. It also says "After you move..." at the beginning. You may be looking at the older version of the card on the first page.

Sorry, I should have written that the "after you move" is what's not needed. You can't attack before you move anyway.


3. Teleporting is weaker if it mimics flying, because of the way flying interacts with overhangs. As it's written now, he can just count X spaces horizontally and place himself on any hex in that "column," whether he can make it to the edge of any overhangs involved or not. Is that what you intended?


I'm not sure I completely understood your example, but teleport is not exactly like flying. It is irrelevant what is in between where you are and where you're going. You simply "appear" on a new space. Does that help?

That's what I thought it meant-- just making sure I was right.

Okay, now for the more difficult one. :)

Both rdhight and MacG mentioned that Teleport and Evade was too much like Spider-Sense. I think this ability implies more things that just pre-awarness of an attack like it does on Spider-Man (much like how Defense can mean "toughness" or "agility" depending on the figure).

Very true. The classic designers seem to toss out "stealth," "agility," "speed," "dodge" names for defensive powers without much thought for consistency or plausibility. That doesn't mean that same power couldn't work as "advanced armor" on another card. I certainly don't think the "ignore damage and take your special movement" power is now a Spider-franchise forever. But whether or not it's too close thematically, it's certainly very close mechanically.

Here's a counter-offer with a little different feel:

TELEPORT AND EVADE
When Nightcrawler is targeted for an attack by an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler may immediately teleport using his Bamf! special power.

This way, he doesn't ignore the damage automatically; he must actually land out of range/LOS of the enemy in order to avoid the attack. And if he does get out of range, the attacker can choose a new target for that shot, if possible. Maybe this captures that Spider-Man responds specifically to the danger, and he can hardly help but get out of the way, while Nightcrawler just moves real fast. He doesn't instinctively move to a safe place, he has to hope he can find one. The d20-based disengaging teleport, and even against a special attack, is so strong by itself, it might be nice to leave off the ignore damage for a change. It could lead to some interesting counter-strategies with ranged figures trying to get close.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

When Nightcrawler is targeted for an attack by an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler may immediately use his Bamf! specialy ability.

I like this better. Some slight changes

[GreyOwl]

The "after you move" was added at the request of several people, to make it clear that Bamf! is not used instead of a normal move/attack but along with them.



When Nightcrawler is targeted for an attack by an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler may immediately use his Bamf! specialy ability.


I think that wording might be confusing, since the Bamf! special ability says that he can do it "after moving" and "instead of an attack". If you say he can do that when attacked, that doesn't quite make sense. Because it must be done instead of an attack, he wouldn't actually be able to use it when defending. Keep in mind that these attack are supposed to be happening simultaneously for the most part. We just take turns to make it playable. In "reality" they obviously wouldn't take turns hitting each other. So as Boromir_and_kermit pointed out earlier, I really think this ability fits in well with the character in that he is teleporting in, attacking, and then teleporting away before the counter attack. It's not him sensing the attack; he's trying to teleport away anyway, just in case.

What I considered for a little while was to make the defensive teleport tied in to the 3 he has available per turn, so that if he used all 3 while attacking or moving, then he has none left to use for defense. This would lead to a strategy of having to decide whether to conserver them for later or not. But I decided against it because it leads to a nightmare when trying to track how many he's used and when, and how long they last.

Honestly, I really don't want to change it solely because it's similar to Spider-Man's ability. If the ability has an inherent problem, then sure, but there are a lot of figures that share abilities so I don't think that's a good enough reason in and of itself.

[IAmBatman]

It's not really the same as Spidey's ability as Spidey uses his webline to move, and Nightcrawler can teleport 5 spaces. Sure Spidey's webline lets him move as if he's teleporting, but that's more his problem than Nightcrawler's IMO. I say let it stand (but, again, not voting on this one. :P )

[allskulls]

I think rdhight's suggestion could work well and he has some valid points but I also think it is fine as it is and it is GreyOwl's call. I may just use his suggestion if you don't :wink:

My issue with Nightcrawler is his move value of 7. I really don't see what merits him such a high move other than his teleporting. If he did not have Bamf! and instead had something like Phantom Walk then I can see why you would give him a high movement. He should be fast but, in Heroscape terms, 6 is fast. And he is not faster than Spider-man outside of his teleportation ability.

Also, his height should be 5. He is not really short. 5'9" to Spidey's 5'10". Wolverine is short...5'3".

[rdhight]

The "after you move" was added at the request of several people, to make it clear that Bamf! is not used instead of a normal move/attack but along with them.

I still think "instead of attacking" makes "after moving" and "more than once per turn" completely redundant, but I suppose if you insist, it's better to have a little too much explanation than not quite enough.


When Nightcrawler is targeted for an attack by an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler may immediately use his Bamf! special ability.


I think that wording might be confusing, since the Bamf! special ability says that he can do it "after moving" and "instead of an attack". If you say he can do that when attacked, that doesn't quite make sense. Because it must be done instead of an attack, he wouldn't actually be able to use it when defending.

If similarity with Spider-Man doesn't bother you, this should pose no problem. Swing Line says to use it "Instead of a normal move," but Spidey-Sense says he "may immediately move using his Swing Line 4 special power." Clearly, the "immediately move" was intended to override the "Instead of a normal move." And hi1 changed the text to use the same "immediately move" wording. So I think anyone who understands Spider-Man's card will understand this power. But if it still bothers you, what about this:

TELEPORT AND EVADE
When Nightcrawler is targeted for an attack by an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler may immediately teleport. To teleport, place Nightcrawler on another space within 4 spaces. When Nightcrawler starts to teleport, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I don't like this one as much because it lacks the "will he make it to safety" aspect of using the d20 to determine distance, but it's a completely self-contained option.


Keep in mind that these attack are supposed to be happening simultaneously for the most part. We just take turns to make it playable. In "reality" they obviously wouldn't take turns hitting each other. So as Boromir_and_kermit pointed out earlier, I really think this ability fits in well with the character in that he is teleporting in, attacking, and then teleporting away before the counter attack. It's not him sensing the attack; he's trying to teleport away anyway, just in case.

But again, should he really have ignore damage on top of the movement? It would be cool if he Bamfed up to Magneto and got in 2 quick hits, then when Magneto opens fire, he teleports away... but not quite far enough! The current version has him:
1. Ignoring damage
2. Forcing the enemy to waste his shot, and
3. Teleporting.
Wouldn't it be more flavorful to keep the teleport and drop the other two? Make him rely on the teleport alone to move out of harm's way, rather than cancelling skulls altogether.

What I considered for a little while was to make the defensive teleport tied in to the 3 he has available per turn, so that if he used all 3 while attacking or moving, then he has none left to use for defense. This would lead to a strategy of having to decide whether to conserver them for later or not. But I decided against it because it leads to a nightmare when trying to track how many he's used and when, and how long they last.

I agree 100%.

Honestly, I really don't want to change it solely because it's similar to Spider-Man's ability. If the ability has an inherent problem, then sure, but there are a lot of figures that share abilities so I don't think that's a good enough reason in and of itself.

Nor would I press you on it for that reason alone. Ultimately, if the playtesting goes well, I would never withhold my stamp of approval just because teleport and evade is a close copy of spider-sense and swing line. If your best version of Nightcrawler has to have the full three-part evade, it can still be fun to play and a fully worthy TNT card. I just think the narrower, movement-only evade will be more fun to play and play against, especially with the suspense aspect of whether the Bamf! d20 roll is high enough to get him out of a shooter's field of fire. Allowing the attack to resolve after the movement offers more options for creative problem solving-- for instance, when attacked by an Explosion, Nightcrawler could teleport near other opponent's figures and use them as shields, playing out the "bad guys shooting one another" trick someone mentioned. Or when attacked by Ullar Enhanced Rifle, he could 'port adjacent to DED, inside its range, and force him to use a normal attack instead. Or he could jump next to a friendly Thorgrim or Cap to steal an extra defense die before the blast hits. Damage-cancelling is brute force, but allowing the attack to happen anyway is better for a swashbuckler, I think.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

I think if you give the Teleport and Evade special another D20 roll, it becomes awfully random. But it could also be fun not knowing if you have saved yourself or not... I don't know I'm torn on this one now. The ability is very thematic though. I will think on it some more.
Ben

[whitestuff]

Wow, this has moved fast.

I really like the look of the latest version. (when are you going to share those layered png backgrounds GreyOwl? ;) )

As for the Teleport and Evade special being like Spidey's, I think an idea worth pursuing would be to have the ability kick in if someone moves into engagment with Nightwalker. If someone stepped next to him, why would Nightwalker wait until he was attacked to teleport away? Having him move before being attacked makes more sense. Melee characters would then still have an attack to use on someone else (if engaged) and ranged characters would have more power to harm him. What do you think?

I'm still disturbed by the hit zone pic. Couldn't you use a less confusing pic? Draw in a tail on a similar shaped figure or something. Even if the actual figure looked different to the hit zone pic, at least you'd know what was what. It looks like a red Rorschach at the moment.

I'd personally like to see the BAMF! roll instructions set out a little more like Cyprien's Chilling Touch, with bullet points. From the look of the sentence length, it shouldn't take up too much more room.

The number 4 next to the word 'medium' needs to be bigger.

The Teleport and Evade numbers are typed as 1 - 12 and 13 - 20. They should be 1-12 and 13-20. (no spaces between numbers and hyphens)


And now for the nitpick -
I feel that the abilities text needs to be bigger. Looking at Cyprien (he has a full card of abilities), the line "If you roll 1-12, nothing happens.", fits just about the whole width. On this card the whole line, "If you roll 1-7, teleport up to 4 spaces.", fits in the width. True, there is only 7 characters (including spaces and periods) difference between the two but that little bit is enough to make the text on Cyprien's card tough to read and Nighwalker's card hard to read. Admittedly I haven't printed the card out as yet, but I'm already having to move close to the computer screen to read it. stupid aging eyes...

[Tiberius]

I like the newest version, cut, print, we have a winner! I think the high move is appropriate to simulate his acrobatic background allowing him to cover ground and move up and down obstacles faster. It fits in my opinion. I think it is a great build, alot of work went into it and you should be proud of it.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Alright lets see where we are at.

Theme: I believe that Nightcrawler is very theme appropriate. His teleportation and triple attack are able to be used in conjunction to reflect his comic book abilities. His teleport and evade ability I believe accurately portrays his movement in the comics. He isn't going to stick around and get hit. So theme wise - big tick from me. I think it fits Nightcrawler to a T

Stats: I'm very happy you increased his life to 4, range, attack and defence appropriate. Not sure about the 7 move, maybe 6 might be more relevant especially with the ability to move vast distances through BAMF! But it's not the end of the world if it stays at 7 :wink:

Left Box: Everything looks good... but Adventurer still doesn't sound right. I was thinking Acrobat (or Zealot because of his faith... but that doesn't sound right either...) Also I'm happy with either height 4 or 5. Both would be appropriate.

Points Wise: I'm not the best on points, but 170 seems like a good number. Playtesting will confirm or deny this total.

Right Box: That is the weirdest hit box I've seen :wink: If you want to keep that one, maybe we should make the sulphur cloud grey... just a thought.

Visuals: The card looks fantastic, graphic is busy but looks awesome.

Balance: Pending playtesting for cost.

All in all an excellent looking custom that you should be very proud of. As long as playtesting proves his value, this will most likely get my stamp very quickly.

Cheers,
Ben.

[GreyOwl]

My responses:

I had no idea Nightcrawler was 5' 9". I thought he was much shorter. Given that, I think it is appropriate to change his height to 5.

I can update the target zone picture to show the sulfur cloud as grey.

I will look into the two comments about font sizes. However, I went through a tedious process of matching these to the official cards by layering on top of the scans and getting everything right, down to the kerning. The ability text is a different size and spacing on every official card as it is auto-fit, which is what I'm using here. But I may have messed up the size for the height, so I'll recheck that.

The layered templates - I posted those yesterday in another thread. See http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10240.

For the Teleport and Evade, I want to avoid having to make more than one 20-sided die roll to use it. So I think it can either stay as it is, or I can just say you can use the Bamf! ability without the initial roll to see if gets to even try. In that version, he would always get to teleport, but it would be unsure by how much. I could also make it only applicable to attacks from a fairly close distance, as he may not be as aware of attacks from further away. I could even see making the Bamf! ability less powerful when used as a defense by saying you must subtract some number from the roll.

However, I'm not clear on the comments that say he may or may not make it out of range. Are you saying that he teleports away before the opponent attacks? So the opponent decides to attack him, Nightcrawler then teleports x spaces based on the Bamf! ability, then the opponent tries to carry out the actual attack? If so, that's kind of an interesting idea. If not, then I'm confused. :wink:

[whitestuff]

I had no idea Nightcrawler was 5' 9". I thought he was much shorter. Given that, I think it is appropriate to change his height to 5.Just go 4.5 ;)

I can update the target zone picture to show the sulfur cloud as grey.Even with the sulphur cloud greyed, it will still be a confusing pic. I saw another Nightwalker card, based on the same figure, with a greyed sulphur cloud and I was still scratching my head trying to figure it out. What did you think of my other idea to use a different pic for the target zone, even though it is not the played figure?

I will look into the two comments about font sizes. However, I went through a tedious process of matching these to the official cards by layering on top of the scans and getting everything right, down to the kerning. The ability text is a different size and spacing on every official card as it is auto-fit, which is what I'm using here. But I may have messed up the size for the height, so I'll recheck that.I know we have talked about this before elsewhere, so I know that you do everything exactingly (which is why is said I was nit-picking). My comment was a general question to see if anyone else thought the text looked too small. Don't get me wrong, I'd never hold back an approval vote due to a text size ;)

The layered templates - I posted those yesterday in another thread. See http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10240.I'll check that out. Thanks for that :)

For the Teleport and Evade, I want to avoid having to make more than one 20-sided die roll to use it. So I think it can either stay as it is, or I can just say you can use the Bamf! ability without the initial roll to see if gets to even try. In that version, he would always get to teleport, but it would be unsure by how much. I could also make it only applicable to attacks from a fairly close distance, as he may not be as aware of attacks from further away. I could even see making the Bamf! ability less powerful when used as a defense by saying you must subtract some number from the roll.I agree about not rolling 2 20-dice. I do suggest changing it slightly. See my next response to your responses.

However, I'm not clear on the comments that say he may or may not make it out of range. Are you saying that he teleports away before the opponent attacks? So the opponent decides to attack him, Nightcrawler then teleports x spaces based on the Bamf! ability, then the opponent tries to carry out the actual attack? If so, that's kind of an interesting idea. If not, then I'm confused. :wink:I think, thematically, it makes more sense for Nightwalker to try to teleport away before an attack occurs. Why would he wait around? This proposed change would make more sense for attacks against him from ranged figures as well. Nightwalker doesn't have a "spidey-senses" ability. He wouldn't "see" or "sense" a shot coming from a ranged opponent but a figure moving into engagement, coming to make a melee attack, he would "see" them coming and then teleport away.

Oh, and by the way, I love the main picture. I think it suits the card perfectly :thumbsup:

[GreyOwl]

Can you summarize the proposed change then? There's been so many ideas tossed around, I'm now confused! :?

For the target zones, I'd really prefer to use the actual figure because when playing that's what you'll compare to. If you can only see a tip of the puff of smoke, you'll want to know if it's targetable or not.

Glad to hear you like the pic. I was just working on changing it since several people have complained. I'll post both versions and see which one people like the best, I guess.

[Grungebob]

Man you guys are really grinding this one out. It is like your doing a complete overhaul and you got parts spread out all over the garage floor. At some point you need to assess how much actual improvement is being made when a whole bunch of valid ideas are converging like this.

[whitestuff]

Man you guys are really grinding this one out. It is like your doing a complete overhaul and you got parts spread out all over the garage floor. At some point you need to assess how much actual improvement is being made when a whole bunch of valid ideas are converging like this.
True. It is starting to feel a little like feature-creep.

What I think

card aesthetics - card design :thumbsup:
left box - apart from 'adventurer' still not feeling right, :thumbsup:
right box - grey out the sulphur cloud, then :thumbsup:
BAMF! - :thumbsup: the only thing I'd change is to bullet-point the roll outcomes like Cyprien's card but this is not a deal-breaker
TRIPLE ATTACK - :thumbsup:
TELEPORT AND EVADE - I think the teleport should/could happen when enemy figures move into engagement, not after any attack.
character numbers - :thumbsup:
points - I'll need to road-test this a bit.


and apologies for calling him Nightwalker before :oops:

[whitestuff]

I just had a thought, how about swashbuckler instead of adventurer?
*EDIT* I just read somewhere that Nightcrawler's idol was Errol Flynn.

[GreyOwl]

I don't mind it too much, as we're not really adding more and more features. It's more of a refining process and overall, I'm happy with it. So far, I think the figure is much better than my original. :)


I just updated the card with a few changes:

- Height is 5
- target zone has the gray smoke
- changed personality to "Devout"

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png


So for the teleport and evade, can you write out how you're suggesting it should read? I'm not sure if you and rdhight are saying the same thing or different things.

I also made an alternate version with a different picture, although I still prefer the original one. Here's the alternate picture:

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER2.png

[GreyOwl]

I just saw your post. Hmmm...would "Devout Swashbuckler" just sound too weird? :)

[whitestuff]

I just saw your post. Hmmm...would "Devout Swashbuckler" just sound too weird? :)
Well... probably.

I'll have a crack at how I think the TELEPORT EVASION could work.

If an opponent's figure moves adjacent to Nightcrawler, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 11 or higher, you may teleport up to 5 spaces. When Nightcrawler teleports, he takes no leaving engagement attacks.

[whitestuff]

Oh, I vote for the original pic.

[GreyOwl]

If an opponent's figure moves adjacent to Nightcrawler, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 11 or higher, you may teleport up to 5 spaces. When Nightcrawler teleports, he takes no leaving engagement attacks.

That's not too bad. A few comments and questions, just to clarify what you intended with this ability. First off, it provides no protection against ranged attacks, so I would think his Defense would need to be bumped up a little compensate (since I lowered it earlier due to the current version of Teleport and Evade). So when would he get to teleport exactly? After the opponent moves but before they attack? And would they have to end their move adjacent to him, or can he teleport if someone is just passing by?

And as strange as "Devout Swashbuckler" sounds, it's kind of growing on me. It represents all the major aspects of Nightcrawler's personality. I might just have to go with that...

[IAmBatman]

I kind of like that new version of Teleport and Evade (or Teleport Evasion, whatever you decide to call it). Definitely gives him a unique flavor - kind of like Engagement Strike in reverse (he runs away instead of striking).
Which way does the Nakita power work? When figures just move next to them, or when figures *end* moves next to them? I'd go with whatever way the Nakitas do it for Nightcrawler.
And, yeah, the word "Nightwalker" may or may not have been edited several times in the first post ... :P

[GreyOwl]

From the Nakita Agents:


Engagement Strike 15

If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to a Nakita Agent, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. Figures may be targeted only as they move into engagement with a Nakita Agent.

[IAmBatman]

I think that could be adjusted for this power pretty easily.

[GreyOwl]

Updated the card once more. Things changed:
- class is now "Swashbuckler"
- added bullets to "Bamf!" so it looks nicer
- reworked "Teleport Evade" based on suggestions

I'm happy with this version of the card, so I really don't anticipate making any more changes unless someone finds a typo or a serious issue with it. So is anyone going to playtest him? :) :)

Here's the latest version:

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Here we go. My turn. And WOAH this thread really grew in the past couple hours.

-Bamf! looks much better this way, with the bullets and all. :thumbsup:
-The size of the text is fine with me except that there is a lot of space between Medium and 5, just looks kind of wierd.
-Telport and Evade needs wording help.

"If an opponent's figure moves adjacent to Nightcrawler, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, Nightcrawler may immeadiately use his Bamf! special ability."

[GreyOwl]

I took the wording for Teleport Evade from the Nakita Agents' Engagement Srike power.


Engagement Strike 15

If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to a Nakita Agent, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. Figures may be targeted only as they move into engagement with a Nakita Agent.


I think the last sentence needs to be there, to make it clear that if someone is already next to you and they move to another space that is next to you, you don't get to use your power. Only the first time they come into engagement. Unless what you're saying is that Nightcrawler should get to teleport in that situation?

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

I took the wording for Teleport Evade from the Nakita Agents' Engagement Srike power.


Engagement Strike 15

If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to a Nakita Agent, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. Figures may be targeted only as they move into engagement with a Nakita Agent.


I think the last sentence needs to be there, to make it clear that if someone is already next to you and they move to another space that is next to you, you don't get to use your power. Only the first time they come into engagement. Unless what you're saying is that Nightcrawler should get to teleport in that situation?Hmmm... It just seemed overly redundant to me, I didn'tnotice it on the Nakita's card. It already says "moves adjacent" so I didn't think it should say again later "only when a figure moves adjacent."

To your question, No. I think Nightcrawler should be able to use it before they engage, but not after he rolled and failed.

[IAmBatman]

That extra sentence is needed. As GreyOwl pointed out, otherwise Nightcrawler wouldn't just be able to use it when a non adjacent figure moves into engagement with him, he'd also be able to use it when an already adjacent figure moved into another space also adjacent to him.
I like that he may use the Bamf ability, but he doesn't have to.

[GreyOwl]

I forgot to mention it earlier, but the last update I made to the card also bumped his Defense back up to where it was originally, since the new Teleport Evade no longer allows him to automatically avoid damage. I also fixed the space issue between "Medium" and "5". I did have the font size wrong for that, and I will be posting an update with all the font info from the official Marvel cards soon.

Latest version:

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

[rdhight]

I promise this is the last time I will mention this, but I still think this is all the text you need:

"BAMF!
Instead of any or all attacks, Nightcrawler may teleport. To teleport, roll the 20-sided die and place Nightcrawler on another space within the allowed distance.

(the list of results (which looks much better with bullets!))

When Nightcrawler starts to teleport, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks."

The other stuff is redundant.

First off, it provides no protection against ranged attacks, so I would think his Defense would need to be bumped up a little compensate (since I lowered it earlier due to the current version of Teleport and Evade). So when would he get to teleport exactly? After the opponent moves but before they attack? And would they have to end their move adjacent to him, or can he teleport if someone is just passing by?

And as strange as "Devout Swashbuckler" sounds, it's kind of growing on me. It represents all the major aspects of Nightcrawler's personality. I might just have to go with that...

Yes, I think his defense should be 5 with the trigger-on-movement version. Otherwise, he's 170 points of "Please please please send range against me I beg of you." Even as it is, he really punishes the enemy for each Range 1 figure. Don't want to make it too extreme.

I'm thinking Teleport Evade should trigger only when an opponent's figure ends its move adjacent to Nightcrawler. (No, I know it's not what the Nakitas do.) I don't like the image of moving a Tarn Viking, let's say, two spaces, bringing it adjacent to Nightcrawler. Then I have to wait, remembering how many spaces I've moved and which Vikings have yet to move, while you roll and possibly count out your movement for Nightcrawler. It seems like I should be allowed to finish my movement before he starts his. Then he rolls to see if he can evade, then I move my remaining figures (perhaps triggering further Bamfs) and attack with all.

Oh yes, and I would make sure to say he can "immediately" use Bamf!

Devout Swashbuckler works great for me.

However, I'm not clear on the comments that say he may or may not make it out of range. Are you saying that he teleports away before the opponent attacks? So the opponent decides to attack him, Nightcrawler then teleports x spaces based on the Bamf! ability, then the opponent tries to carry out the actual attack? If so, that's kind of an interesting idea. If not, then I'm confused.

Yes, I meant first you target him, then he teleports, then you still get to shoot. Since you've gone another way already, maybe I'll use this one myself on something.

For the Teleport and Evade, I want to avoid having to make more than one 20-sided die roll to use it.

Jotun's Throw has two d20 rolls in a row, and I don't think that bothers anyone. Not the people I play with, anyway.

Well, that's about it. You've made huge improvements so far. I look forward to playtesting soon. Think I'll test him against Batman.

[IAmBatman]

You mean the newly TNT Batman? :D

[GreyOwl]

Instead of any or all attacks, Nightcrawler may teleport. To teleport, roll the 20-sided die and place Nightcrawler on another space within the allowed distance.

(the list of results (which looks much better with bullets!))

When Nightcrawler starts to teleport, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks."

The other stuff is redundant.


I agree that the rest seems redundant, but when I had it that way originally several people said it wasn't clear how it worked. So I opted for redunant over unclear. Unless people no longer think it would be unclear that way? It would definitely save me some room on the card.


Well, that's about it. You've made huge improvements so far. I look forward to playtesting soon. Think I'll test him against Batman.

I haven't played the TNT Batman (YET! :) ), but my guess would be it might be hard for him to catch Nightcrawler. Once he does, though, I think Nightcrawler would be toast. Now that I think about it, Batman vs. Nightcrawler would make a cool comic. Has that ever been done?

[IAmBatman]

I don't think that one's been done that I know of. But I'm increasingly out of the comic book loop (I'd rather spend my cash on 'Scape).

[rdhight]

You mean the newly TNT Batman? :D

Yes. Yes I do.

[IAmBatman]

You mean the newly TNT Batman? :D

Yes. Yes I do. :toast:

[MacG]

I really like your new card. You pretty much took care of my worries and added great designators in the left side. I'm stealing it right now.

[IAmBatman]

You even fixed the 5. :thumbsup:

[GreyOwl]

You even fixed the 5. :thumbsup:

Yeah, once I started checking the fonts on the Marvel cards I realized I had it wrong. And once it was pointed out, it really started to bug me. :shock:

I'm stealing it right now.

Thanks! I'll take that as a complement! :)

[whitestuff]

Well done GreyOwl. The card looks fabulous.
As soon as I give it a play-test or two, it'll get my tick of approval. :D

[IAmBatman]

I might give it a playtest in the next day or two as well. You know, just to help out. :D (Plus I'm digging the Batman vs. Nightcrawler idea).

[Grungebob]

I am not digging the title "swashbuckler" Here are some synonyms:

Synonyms: charlatan, daredevil, entrepreneur, explorer, fortune-hunter, gambler, globetrotter, hero, heroine, knight, madcap, mercenary, opportunist, pioneer, pirate, rogue, romantic, soldier, speculator, stunt man, swashbuckler, traveler, venturer, voyager, wanderer

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Uhh why when I click page 8 it says "No posts exist on this topic." And the bottom of page 7 shows posts that I know where not the last ones in this thread. I wonder if anyone will even be able to see this post.

EDIT: I noticed rdhight's post in the TNT thread is missing as well. I wonder whats going on.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, something funky's up. Rdhight sent me a pm asking if he was the only one, but clearly he isn't - page 8 is missing for me as well. I'm really not sure what's going on. Perhaps an Admin can clear things up. I'll look into it (I've been busy for the last little bit so this is the first time I'm coming on the boards in a little while).

[netherspirit]

We are having database issues...

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10334

[IAmBatman]

Thanks for the update, nether! I was just coming back here to let people know it was being addressed. Good work as always - you and your fellow admins really make this website a pleasure to be a part of.

[Grungebob]

I am not digging the title "swashbuckler" Here are some synonyms:

Synonyms: charlatan, daredevil, entrepreneur, explorer, fortune-hunter, gambler, globetrotter, hero, heroine, knight, madcap, mercenary, opportunist, pioneer, pirate, rogue, romantic, soldier, speculator, stunt man, swashbuckler, traveler, venturer, voyager, wandererJust re-posting my thoughts on Nightcrawlers class. I really don't like the use of swashbuckler. He has a swashbuckling way about him, but the name just doesn't do it for me. I like Trickster.

[rdhight]

Glad to know someone's working on the problem. I'll try this one more time, and if this post disappears as well, I guess I'll just have to wait for the all-clear.

Q: What is a good price for the current version?

A: 160 max, and even that is probably too high. Spider-Man is 160, and he has a 50% chance of swinging away when attacked, automatically ignoring damage from ranged or melee, normal or special. Plus Spidey has a ranged special attack. Down at 150 points, Venom's d20 defense is at least as good as Nightcrawler's, if not better, and he still has a stronger normal attack and the same ranged special. Cyprien heals himself by attacking and deals out d20 damage that can't be counterstruck or spider-sensed. And while those 150-pointers aren't quite as mobile as Nightcrawler, all three are still awful fast and can disengage.

Still, the current Bamf! is much stronger than the old one. The original card was averaging a little over 5 spaces per teleport with a chance to fail. The new one averages over 7 spaces and is 100% reliable. And while he's weak to range, the current Teleport Evade will be infuriating against melee squads. Plus "Mutant" will be one of the best things to have in your left box. And that move-attack-move....

It's sure hard to price a big power that doesn't attack or defend, I'll say that.

I'm thinking 135 is too low, 145 is pretty close. I'll test him against Kaemon Awa and see what happens there.

The problem is, even with his speed, he doesn't have a good punching bag in Marvel right now because Marvel doesn't have any weak support figures that require formation fighting, except for the occasional all-order-markers-on-Red-Skull army. There's no one for him to victimize, so he's most attractive as an expensive glyph guy. But in a game with classic figures, the attack possibilities open up. Target Raelin. Bypass the Gladiatrons and go for the Blastatrons. Hit the Swogs. Break Roman Archer formations.

I'm thinking he'll start out having trouble earning his points in Marvel, even 150 points, but people will still take him against Classic armies. Then when Professor X and others with strong mutant boosts come out (and Magneto has already started this), and as better assassination targets appear, he'll gradually get good in Marvel as well. Gonna be a big third-marker guy, I think.

[whitestuff]

I am not digging the title "swashbuckler" Here are some synonyms:

Synonyms: charlatan, daredevil, entrepreneur, explorer, fortune-hunter, gambler, globetrotter, hero, heroine, knight, madcap, mercenary, opportunist, pioneer, pirate, rogue, romantic, soldier, speculator, stunt man, swashbuckler, traveler, venturer, voyager, wandererJust re-posting my thoughts on Nightcrawlers class. I really don't like the use of swashbuckler. He has a swashbuckling way about him, but the name just doesn't do it for me. I like Trickster.
In the wikipedia post on Errol Flynn, the ultimate swashbuckler;
# The Marvel Comics character Nightcrawler is a great admirer of Flynn and models much of himself after him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Flynn

Swashbuckler defined: a swaggering swordsman, soldier, or adventurer; daredevil.

Swashbuckler fits for me. It sounds just like Nightcrawler's personality. :)


*EDIT* Will the posts made which disappeared come back or are they gone forever?

[Grungebob]

I am not digging the title "swashbuckler" Here are some synonyms:

Synonyms: charlatan, daredevil, entrepreneur, explorer, fortune-hunter, gambler, globetrotter, hero, heroine, knight, madcap, mercenary, opportunist, pioneer, pirate, rogue, romantic, soldier, speculator, stunt man, swashbuckler, traveler, venturer, voyager, wandererJust re-posting my thoughts on Nightcrawlers class. I really don't like the use of swashbuckler. He has a swashbuckling way about him, but the name just doesn't do it for me. I like Trickster.
In the wikipedia post on Errol Flynn, the ultimate swashbuckler;
# The Marvel Comics character Nightcrawler is a great admirer of Flynn and models much of himself after him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Flynn

Swashbuckler defined: a swaggering swordsman, soldier, or adventurer; daredevil.

Swashbuckler fits for me. It sounds just like Nightcrawler's personality. :)


*EDIT* Will the posts made which disappeared come back or are they gone forever?Naw sorry! Just not convincing me. But it's not like the word usage in the class has that much of an effect on the game.

[GreyOwl]

Another advantage Nightcrawler has that came up when we played him was against castles. He can teleport right in and not mess with the door. This may or may not help justify his cost, but I thought I'd point it out.

[IAmBatman]

Another advantage Nightcrawler has that came up when we played him was against castles. He can teleport right in and not mess with the door. This may or may not help justify his cost, but I thought I'd point it out.

That's really nothing special or new, though - fliers can fly right over it. Basically this is just like flying with D20 based movement.

[GreyOwl]

Another advantage Nightcrawler has that came up when we played him was against castles. He can teleport right in and not mess with the door. This may or may not help justify his cost, but I thought I'd point it out.

That's really nothing special or new, though - fliers can fly right over it. Basically this is just like flying with D20 based movement.

It depends on the specific castle design. On the map we played, there was a large overhang above the door. Flying figures would have to fly all the way over and down, and back under the overhang to get to the inside of the door. Nightcrawler teleported just to the inside of the door and opened it.

So there is a difference between teleportation and flying in a few circumstances, like when dealing with overhangs.

[allskulls]

I am not digging the title "swashbuckler" Here are some synonyms:

Synonyms: charlatan, daredevil, entrepreneur, explorer, fortune-hunter, gambler, globetrotter, hero, heroine, knight, madcap, mercenary, opportunist, pioneer, pirate, rogue, romantic, soldier, speculator, stunt man, swashbuckler, traveler, venturer, voyager, wandererJust re-posting my thoughts on Nightcrawlers class. I really don't like the use of swashbuckler. He has a swashbuckling way about him, but the name just doesn't do it for me. I like Trickster.
In the wikipedia post on Errol Flynn, the ultimate swashbuckler;
# The Marvel Comics character Nightcrawler is a great admirer of Flynn and models much of himself after him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Flynn

Swashbuckler defined: a swaggering swordsman, soldier, or adventurer; daredevil.

Swashbuckler fits for me. It sounds just like Nightcrawler's personality. :)


*EDIT* Will the posts made which disappeared come back or are they gone forever?Naw sorry! Just not convincing me. But it's not like the word usage in the class has that much of an effect on the game.
There could be an effect it has on the game in future cards and I agree that Swashbuckler does not sound good. I think it should remain Adventurer. As much as it has gotten flack, the term does come up as a synonym for swashbuckler and it is already an official class so future synergy is possible.

[GreyOwl]

I'm okay with Adventurer. I can change it back. Does anyone else have input on his cost?

[Grungebob]

I'm okay with Adventurer. I can change it back. Does anyone else have input on his cost?Looking at traditional Heroes I'd say you got the points fairly close as can be expected with 170. Adventurer sounds better to my ear, but really, swashbuckler would not ruin it for me. I say this bad boy is done!! Excellent custom and great community involvement!

[Boromir_and_kermit]

I think that 170 is pretty close, 160 might be closer with only 3 attack. Venom has 6 attack and Webline and he's 150. Nightcrawler's BAMF! is I think more useful and with Teleport and evade. Spiderman has 5 life, Nightcrawler 4... I don't know maybe I'm just being picky.

PS. I can't seem to find my playtest session on this page... Basically it was Spiderman vs Nightcrawler, there was a lot of toing and froing, it was hard to pin either down. Spiderman won two out of three games, but had 2 life and 1 life remaining respectively. Nightcrawler is just that more succeptable with the 4 life. So 160 is pretty good, but I'm not going to withhold my tick over 10 points :D

I'll have a couple more games and then I'll sign on the dotted line :wink:

Ben.

[GreyOwl]

What if I keep his points at 170 and bump his life up to 5? I just noticed that Red Skull has a life of 5 and he has no special powers that make him more durable. Then again, Iron Man has a life of 4 so it isn't exactly consistent. :? Or maybe keep his life as is and raise his attack by 1?

[whitestuff]

I think that 170 is pretty close, 160 might be closer with only 3 attack. PS. I can't seem to find my playtest session on this page...
Ditto to both of the above.

I've play-tested Nightcrawler twice. Here's the run down...

Team 1 was me - Nightcrawler (170), Nikita Agents (120), and the Marro Warriors (50) :- Total 340p
Team 2 was my brother-in-law - Spidey (160), Krav Maga Agents (100) and Crixus (90) :- Total 350p
Team 3 was wife - Q9 (180), Zettian Guard (70) and Retarius (90). :- Total 340p

The two other 150+ figures (1 in each army) where specifically chosen as figures that would be the most successful against Nightcrawler.
The map was smallish with lots of ruins. I'll put a pic up to give you and idea. *apologies for the SQUORPION quality pic*
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/DSC02830.jpg

Game 1
In the first game Nightcrawler Bamf!ed to the middle of the board and then onwards to start attacking Q9. In the 2nd round Q9 had no more turns so Nightcrawler didn't Bamf! away, instead inflicting his maximum number of attacks. Q9 was left with 1 life at the end of Nightcrawler's barrage. The Zettian Guards moved up slowly and found Nightcrawler in range. The first ZG attacked with two skulls, Nightcrawler (with 1 bonus for height) rolled 4 skulls, 1 shield and 1 blank. The second ZG rolls 3 shields. Nice. Smarting from the ZG's stinging attack, Nightcrawler then Bamf!ed away to take care of Spidey (who was ripping through the Marro) and reduced him to 1 life by keeping his distance. Spidey starts to chase Nightcrawler. On his last Bamf! before his death Nightcrawler rolls a 1 on the 20d and can only move 4 spaces away. Spidey Swing Lines in, close to Nightcrawler (but not close enough to trigger the Teleport Evade). Q9 slowly climbs a hill and is left only 1 space away from both Spidey and Nightcrawler. End of Round. Then Nightcrawler's luck disappeared. Next round and Spidey wins advantage and Web Attack's, rolling 2 skulls, Nightcrawler rolls... no shields. (Nightcrawler - 3 wounds, 1 life left). While licking his wounds from the vicious Spidey, Nightcrawler is then attacked from behind by the hurt and vengeful Q9. Q9 attacks with 2 skulls, Nightcrawler blocks both. Q9 attacks with 2 skulls, Nightcrawler blocks both. Q9 attacks with 3 skulls, Nightcrawler rolls 2 shields, taking his final wound and is out of the match. Spidey and Q9 had ganged up to the sorrow of Nightcrawler.
Lessons Learnt
1. The 20d roll is great for the Bamf! movement as it allows enough unpredictability to make Nightcrawler still vulnerable to chasers.
2. A couple of ruins or walls and Nightcrawler is one sneaky beggar.
3. Everytime my wife gets Q9, she kicks my butt.

Game 2
Team 1 was my brother-in-law - Nightcrawler (170), Nikita Agents (120), and the Marro Warriors (50) :- Total 340p
Team 2 was my wife - Spidey (160), Krav Maga Agents (100) and Crixus (90) :- Total 350p
Team 3 was me - Q9 (180), Zettian Guard (70) and Retarius (90). :- Total 340p

In the first game I was quite gun-ho with Nightcrawler which lead to some early wounds. My Brother-in-law (BiL) took a much more staid approach. He moved the Nikita Agents into position to protect Nightcrawler in various positions around the board. Spidey and the Krav were moving towards the centre of the board, as was Q9 and the Zettians (s...l...o...w...l...y). Spidey Web Attacked a Nikita (we call her Demi) and kills her. The Nikita fight back but Spidey-Senses are too good for them. Q9 moves towards the ruckus and finds the Krav in range. 2 dead krav later (Q9 rolled a single die 9 times, eventually 2 of the poor Krav couldn't pull a shield out of their collective hats) and Nightcrawler Bamf!s into action (my BiL has made it a rule that you have to exclaim "Bamf!" when you Bamf!), attacks Spidey, who Sensed the attack and Swing Lined away. Q9 climbs the hill, firing upon the Nikita Agents. Oprah blocks the first attack but bites the bullet (literally) on the second attack. Susan's (the last remaining Nikita) life is ripped away as she rolls no shields to block Q9's sad, solitary skull. Nightcrawler Bamf!s next to the Zettians, using a height advantage to attack Q9 (1 wound to Metal Mickey). After Nightcrawler's second attack, my BiL realizes that he has miscounted the number of attacks and has left Nightcrawler unprotected in the middle of the board, engaged to an enraged Q9. While Spidey beats Retarius senseless, Q9 turns and attacks Nightcrawler. When Nightcrawler finally gets a chance to limp away, he does so with only 1 life left. ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY Q9!! Nightcrawler Bamf!s as far as he can away from Q9 and starts to pummel Crixus, which proves to be a difficult prospect. Spidey moves away from the inert body of Retarius and starts to track down Nightcrawler. The damage of miscounted attacks has unnerved Nightcrawler who Bamf!s to hide after damaging Crixus with 1 wound. Q9 mounts the apex of the hill and turns the Marro into hapless victims. Spidey moves closer to Nightcrawler who in turn was attempting to hurt the Zettians (never successful). Nightcrawler has not been paying attention to the trap that has been set by Spidey and Q9. Nightcrawler finds that in order to Bamf! out of danger, he needs to roll higher than a 16, which he fails to do. Accepting his demise, Nightcrawler Bamf!s into Spidey and attacks for all he is worth. Spidey's Senses fail him twice, leading to his death. As Nightcrawler revelled in his small victory, Q9 wiped him from the board.
Lessons Learnt
1. Always remember to count Nightcrawler's attacks carefully.
2. Those playing Nightcrawler needs to have board awareness so that Nightcrawler doesn't get trapped to easily.
3. How good is Q9?

What if I keep his points at 170 and bump his life up to 5? Or maybe keep his life as is and raise his attack by 1?
A 5 life or an extra attack would justify 170p in my mind. Without either then probably 160p.

This guy is close to the stamp... :D

[whitestuff]

If anyone has any other play-test, pm me the link. Thanks :!: ;)

[Boromir_and_kermit]

I think because of the triple attack, I would raise the life by one (to five) and that would be 170 no probs. Also it would give him the lastability against ranged figures (whom he can't BAMF! away from until his turn).

Very thorough playtest sessions whitestuff!!! Great job.

I just had another game with Nightcrawler and he was brutal!

We just had a pure supers game this time.

Captain America and Iron Man VS. Doctor Doom and NIGHTCRAWLER

The first turn saw Nightcrawler cautiously move forward and BAMF! onto a high spot. He was happy with the location so his two extra attacks went begging. Cap and Iron man moved forward, as did Dr.Doom

The next turn saw Doom and Cap exchange blows, causing 1 wound each. Iron man advanced, Nightcrawler BAMF!ed in and attacked once, then BAMFed away... I love that ability. No damage yet.

Doom and Cap exchanged blows with no results. Ironman could get Nightcrawler in range (BAMFED away too far) Nightcrawler BAMFed in with height advantage, attacked, 1 wound on Iron man, second attack, 2 wounds on Iron Man.

Next round saw Doom off Captain America, Nightcrawler take a wound from Iron Man and then saw Nightcrawler take out Ironman with 3 skulls on 4 dice. Iron man rolled skulls. Lucky rolls, maybe??? But Nightcrawler was still on 3 life and with his BAMF! ability, he is hard to lock down.

After this game, I would be happy with 170 or 160. His ability to move really makes him a powerful character. 170 and give him 1 more life. (Then he's the same life as Spiderman, but with more movement options) With the lack of range, 170 seems right.

After a decision of the points is made, this guy is getting my stamp.

Congrats on a great custom mate!!!

Ben.

[rdhight]

My Marvelscape arrived today! I playtested Nightcrawler against Kaemon, Spidey, Venom, and his weight's worth of a couple squad armies. Full report later... short version: He. Is. So. Much. Fun.

For a figure that's going to be blazing into enemy start zones and onto glyphs all over the place, and seldom giving up height advantage even to fliers, he feels fair to me. Non-annoying. The very real possibility of teleporting only 4 spaces on that third attack, combined with 4 life, make him almost as big a risk for his own side as for the opponent. If you always had to slowly grind him down, or if he was reliably dealing too much damage over and over, he would really make the other players sick and tired of seeing him.

You don't need to change a thing except for dropping the points to 160 or less. Honestly, I think 3 attack and 4 life with 5 defense is perfect. He definitely doesn't need 4 attack or 5 life to bulk him up to a solid 170-pointer. Just as with the Airborne's 2 defense, his fragility is part of the fun, and I think 150-160 with current stats is the best place for him. Probably 160. But follow the example of the Rechets and AE and don't take away the uncertainty that should go along with fielding an ultra-high-mobility figure.

I really like the skill-testing decisions his powers force on both his player and the opposing player. He deserves my stamp ASAP, but I continue to be convinced that 170 is just a little too high.

Very nice work, GreyOwl.

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Well, shall we agree to leave as is then and put the points at 160?? Then we can stamp away :wink: ???

[GreyOwl]

my BiL has made it a rule that you have to exclaim "Bamf!" when you Bamf!

We do this, too. It is so much fun, that it should officially be a rule on the card! :)

As for changing his life/attack/points, we have 2 judges voting for bumping the life up to 5 and leaving the points at 170, and one judge for leaving the stats as is and dropping his points to 160. Shall we go with the majority then? I kind of like him better with more life, too, but I could go either way. I have to remake the card anyway to changed "Swashbuckler" back to "Adventurer", so it wouldn't be any extra effort.

EDIT: Hmmm...just saw that Boromir_and_Kermit is okay with dropping the points to 160. So the opinion seems to be about even both ways. Which way to go?

[Boromir_and_kermit]

Only because he is rather wily (pronounced while-y... like the coyote :wink: ) and hard to lock down. Personally he becomes a safer option with the extra life at 170, but is a real nice risk reward trade off at 160... it's too hard!!!!! I'm happy either way. What would you prefer GreyOwl... it's your custom :D I think my final stance (for this moment in time :wink: ) is that leave him as is and put his points at 160.

The last few games I ran with him, if I played him cleverly, he was able to get clear of danger easily enough for his 4 life to not become an issue. The only thing he needs to worry about is ranged attacks... yeah, keep him as is and put his points 160 I think. :?: :wink:

EDIT: I'm happy either way really. I just need to find a figure for him!!!!!

Cheers,
Ben.

[rdhight]

EDIT: Hmmm...just saw that Boromir_and_Kermit is okay with dropping the points to 160. So the opinion seems to be about even both ways. Which way to go?

Remember that as a mutant, he'll probably see some nice synergies come his way later. Shouldn't make him too tough to start with if he's ready for Cyclops, Professor X, etc. to appear and boost him. Already, he strikes me as a natural draft with TNT Magneto because of Revolutionary Action.

[GreyOwl]

I'm okay with dropping his points to 160. That will make him more likely to be drafted, anyway. I'll make a new card with the point change and the change of class, and post it momentarily.

[GreyOwl]

Okay, here's the new card. Only changes were dropping his points to 160 and changing his class to "Adventurer".

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

[rdhight]

Not much else to say but
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/approved.gif

[whitestuff]

What can I say? Nightcrawler is a great addition. He gets my http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/approved.gif stamp. Excellent work GreyOwl :thumbsup:

[GreyOwl]

Thank you, and thank you! :) Now we just have to wait for Australia time to roll around to see Boromir_and_kermit's vote. :)

On the assumption that he'll approve it, is there some standard for putting the TNT stamp on the card? Where it should go, what color it should be, etc.? I like the way IAmBatman did it, but I wasn't sure if that was his personal preference or if we have (or should have?) a standard for it.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Thank you, and thank you! :) Now we just have to wait for Australia time to roll around to see Boromir_and_kermit's vote. :)

On the assumption that he'll approve it, is there some standard for putting the TNT stamp on the card? Where it should go, what color it should be, etc.? I like the way IAmBatman did it, but I wasn't sure if that was his personal preference or if we have (or should have?) a standard for it.Allskulls did it. He also re-typed the card to look as nice as it does. Wait for him to come around and I'm sure he'll fix up the stamp real nice on Nightcrawler.

[allskulls]

I have a lot of catching up to do :shock:
Thank you, and thank you! :) Now we just have to wait for Australia time to roll around to see Boromir_and_kermit's vote. :)

On the assumption that he'll approve it, is there some standard for putting the TNT stamp on the card? Where it should go, what color it should be, etc.? I like the way IAmBatman did it, but I wasn't sure if that was his personal preference or if we have (or should have?) a standard for it.
I added the stamp to Batman's card. I tried various places and that was the best IMO since it did not take away from the rest of the card. I would like for all the TNT stamps to be placed there. With a bit of the hitzone overlapping the stamp, it won't be easy to duplicate. For any TNT card that a creator does not want my design help for, I will send that creator the TNT stamp to place on the card. I don't want to put it in the gallery for everyone though. When I send the stamp, please only use it for a TNT card.

[GreyOwl]

You already sent me the stamp, and I can place it in that spot with no problem. Is there a standard color I should use for the logo, or should it just match the color scheme of the rest of the card?

EDIT: I definitely won't put it on the cad until it is officially approved by everyone.

[GreyOwl]

By the way, did anyone test Nightcrawler against the Hulk? I'm curious how he would do, since Hulk doesn't have a ranged attack, and Nightcrawler can teleport away when the Hulk gets next to him.

[IAmBatman]

Looks like things are coming along quite well here. I look forward to being able to lock this thread and to seeing another name added to (replacing?) Batman in the Index. :D

[GreyOwl]

Nah, I don't see any reason why yours should be un-TNT'd (that's a weird looking word). I still think it can be clarified with some wording changes. But that's just me. :)

[Boromir_and_kermit]

... and Australia says YES!

Nightcrawler definetly gets my stamp of http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/approved.gif

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Congrats GreyOwl!! Great custom and looking foreward to seeing it with the stamp.

[GreyOwl]

Cool! :) How's this? I never got an answer as to the color of the logo, so if it's supposed to be a specific color just let me know and I'll change it.

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.png

[allskulls]

The stamp color can and should be changed to fit the color scheme of each card. It would be better if you could have the hitzone overlap the stamp a bit. The card looks great, and since I have yet to playtest my Nightcrawler, I may just have to use yours instead...the TNT is already working :D

Sorry that I was not too involved with this one but we do have a group of great judges and other community members that are making the TNTs great.

[GreyOwl]

The hit zone is actually overlapping the logo (the logo is in another layer that's behind the hit zone). The problem is that this hitzone doesn't have a portion that sticks out that far, so none of it obscures the logo.

[IAmBatman]

Firemaster - just give me the word when you've got everything you need out of here and I'll lock her down.
Congrats GreyOwl for a custom well crafted, tried and true! :D